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Schrader/DeNiro/Scorsese/Farber/Patterson

By March 25, 2011No Comments

Driver hallway

One of the many nice things about the new Blu-ray disc of the res­tor­a­tion of Martin Scorsese’s Taxi Driver is that the sup­ple­ments restore to us  the very first audio com­ment­ary on the film, fea­tur­ing the film’s screen­writer Paul Schrader as well as its dir­ect­or. Recorded in 1986 for the Criterion Collection laser disc of the film, it’s a com­ment­ary in the Criterion style—serious, frank, in-depth, not the sort of self-congratulatory “I love this shot” stuff that audio com­ment­ar­ies became asso­ci­ated with in the height of the DVD boom. In any event, when Criterion’s license on the film went out, Sony began over­see­ing the DVD edi­tions, and the exem­plary laser disc com­ment­ary went by the way­side; some­body at Sony was on the ball enough to acquire the mater­i­al from Criterion and include it here. It’s still a bra­cing listen. From the hind­sight of ten years past, and hav­ing endured any num­ber of per­son­al and artist­ic cru­cibles since the mak­ing of Taxi Driver, Schrader and Scorsese are in reflect­ive frames of mind, fully cog­niz­ant of the fact that Taxi Driver was in a sense an extraordin­ary occur­rence. Scorsese: “It was a beau­ti­ful script. There’s only two scripts that I’ve got­ten that were com­pletely there, that we hardly had to do any work on…Taxi Driver was the first one, later on it was King of Comedy by Paul Zimmerman[…] Bob and myself felt as if it had been writ­ten for us in a funny way.” Schrader: “[It was v]ery much a serendip­ity. Three people com­ing togeth­er at a cer­tain point in their lives all need­ing to say the same thing. You know, occa­sion­ally in art you get lucky, and you’re in the right place at the right time with the right people.”

It is par­tic­u­larly inter­est­ing to listen to them talk about what they were feel­ing, about what they were doing, in con­junc­tion with explor­ing what a couple of first-rate crit­ics, Manny Farber and his part­ner Patricia Patterson, saw them doing in the film. The Farber/Patterson essay, “The Power And The Gory,” was first pub­lished in the May/June 1976 issue of Film Comment. (Taxi Driver premiered in February of that year.) It can now be read in the Library of America’s indis­pens­ible volume, Farber on Film. An extremely detailed and vivid piece of prose, it altern­ates so vehe­mently between admir­a­tion for the film and grave offense at it that it can almost be con­sidered as a piece of Writing Against Itself. The argu­ments against the film are not, as it hap­pens, as easy to dis­miss out­right as Pauline Kael’s hideously smug and classist “What am I doing here watch­ing these two dumb f–ks?” whinge on Raging Bull. Farber and Patterson char­ac­ter­ize as “diver­sion­ary” the “pound­ing, illus­trat­ive music that grinds you,” and “the spike words which stud the […] soundtrack.“ ‘Pussy’ and ‘fuck’ have nev­er been har­ves­ted so often; the black race is mauled by verbal inven­tions spoken with elab­or­ate pizza­zz styl­ing[…]” The pic­ture winds up Farber and Patterson to the extent that it turns them into “plaus­ibles,” to use Alfred Hitchcock’s coin­age for his least favor­ite kind of movie view­er, and they make a list of “plot impossibles.” They inveigh against the use of the DeNiro: “the intense DeNiro is sold as a mis­fit psychot­ic, and, at the same time, a cha­ris­mat­ic star who cen­ters every shot[…]” To some, that para­dox might seem key to the film’s glory, but Farber and Patterson are clearly quite irrit­ated by this. They can­not, how­ever, dis­guise their delight at the bravura film­mak­ing: “The amount of twist­ing ques­tions that are thrown at the spec­tat­or high­lights its dir­ect­or’s bold­ness in intric­ate visu­als.” Still, one senses that Farber and Patterson can­’t enjoy their enjoy­ment. They deeply dis­trust the film. A key to read­ing the essay: they fre­quently use vari­ations on the verb “sell,” and when they do, that’s a sig­nal that they’re gonna bitch about some­thing. They even take the film­makers to task on the mar­ket­ing of the pic­ture: “The movie’s ad cam­paign (the poster of DeNiro as a loom­ing pres­ence, the inter­views with crew mem­bers almost before the final mix­ing, the ter­rible schlock nov­el now sold in every super­mar­ket which takes [Arthur] Bremer’s diary and Schrader’s script to an unbe­liev­ably trashy depth) is rev­el­at­ory of what the film­makers feel it takes to move, score, and hold your ter­rit­ory in a com­pet­it­ive U.S.A. society.”

This con­trasts quite a bit to Schrader’s pro­nounce­ment (I’m para­phras­ing here) that the Taxi Driver script leapt out of him like an anim­al, or Scorsese’s vari­ous pro­clam­a­tions con­cern­ing his own iden­ti­fic­a­tion with Travis Bickle’s sense of isol­a­tion and anger. On the com­ment­ary track cited above, Scorsese’s remark about feel­ing the script had been writ­ten for him and DeNiro comes after he recounts a clash with stu­dio execs over match­ing shots in the lunch-with-Betsy scene, recol­lect­ing in tran­quil­ity that it was a “ser­i­ous” clash and leav­ing it to the listen­er­’s ima­gin­a­tion just how ser­i­ous it was, giv­en the per­son­al volat­il­ity that was much more a part of the Scorsese fore­front than it was in 1986, or than it is today. 

Almost forty minutes into the film, there’s the shot of Travis on a pay phone after his dis­astrous porn-theater date with Betsy, hunch­ing over a little, try­ing to make out what’s gone wrong. The cam­era slowly tracks to the right, and into a view of an empty hall­way lead­ing to the front door of the build­ing. Here’s Scorsese talk­ing about the shot on the com­ment­ary, as he looks at it: “We’re hold­ing on him, and he’s just get­ting refused and rejec­ted and rejec­ted, then the cam­era starts to move, to the hall. As if it’s about to reveal some­thing. And it doesn’t. The idea is meant that the rev­el­a­tion comes much later, when he explodes. I think this is one of the last things we shot, one of the last days of shooting…and then he enters the frame and leaves. And when I thought of that shot…it presen­ted to me how the style of the pic­ture would be…where the moves would be…the cam­era moves would seem…uh, if I could really put it in words I wouldn’t have had to put it on film.” At this point Scorsese pauses and seems to gath­er him­self. “The idea is that…theres a sense again of anxi­ety, a sense of uneas­i­ness, of the cam­era track­ing to an empty hall. Is that his soul?…Is that…the empti­ness he’s feel­ing in his heart? Or are we about to reveal some­thing, is there about to be an explo­sion, is some­thing ter­rible about to hap­pen in the hall? It was the idea of keep­ing the audi­ence off bal­ance all the time, and that was the piece…all the oth­er shots came from that concept that’s in that shot right now. It just turned out to be one of the last shots we took, but it was the first shot I thought of.”

One is reminded of Vladimir Nabokov’s essay “On A Book Entitled Lolita,” and the pas­sage wherein he evokes “Mr. Taxovich, or that class list of Ramsdale School, or Charlotte say­ing ‘water­proof,’ ” and then pro­nounces, “These are the nerves of the nov­el.” Many an English lit major no doubt said “Really? Charlotte say­ing ‘water­proof’?” and then paged back through the book to find the pas­sage and see if it res­on­ated any dif­fer­ently as a res­ult. It’s worth not­ing that the shot thus doted on by Scorsese isn’t even men­tioned in the Farber/Patterson essay. 

I don’t know if Scorsese or Schrader ever went on record with their reac­tion to the Farber/Patterson essay, but the two were/are admirers of Farber, and I recall one of them describ­ing a vis­it the two made to Farber’s stu­dio, where they took in his won­der­ful paint­ings, as a “pil­grim­age.” Also, I won­der what Farber would have made of Scorsese’s recent Shine A Light, which to my mind is, among oth­er things, very much a film about what it takes to move, score, and hold one’s ter­rit­ory in a com­pet­it­ive world­wide market.

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  • Thank you very much for this, Glenn.
    Saw this again – for the first time in a theat­er in years – at a great event at the DGA (nicely mod­er­ated by Kent Jones) and I loved it as much as ever. And it was ter­rif­ic to hear Scorsese and Schrader detail Bresson, “Notes from Underground,” and all the things, includ­ing their own dark feel­ings, that went into this.
    It was fas­cin­at­ing, too, to read here Scorsese’s descrip­tion of that shot in the hall­way. Whenever I’ve seen it, it’s always struck me as the cam­era lit­er­ally look­ing away out of embar­rass­ment. Sort of – ohmi­god, this poor mook, listen to him get shot down here, I can­’t watch this, I just can’t…

  • In defense of Kael’s reac­tion to Raging Bull, I’ve always felt the same way. Although I love Scorsese, DeNiro, and most box­ing films, there’s some emotional/psychological impasse I can nev­er over­come. There’s no such bar­ri­er for the char­ac­ters in Mean Streets or Taxi Driver. I just don’t feel LaMotta’s pain and become annoyed by all the shout­ing. Call me a philistine.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    @ Michael Adams: I won’t call you a phil­istine. If that’s your reac­tion, that’s your reac­tion, and there’s noth­ing any­one can do about that. But sub­ject­ive reac­tions, while they no doubt spur crit­ic­al argu­ments, aren’t crit­ic­al argu­ments in and of them­selves. Also, Kael’s way of stat­ing her reac­tion has a not-so-faint-stench of “Not our kind, dear,” snob­bery. Maybe that’s just my Italian American her­it­age tak­ing umbrage.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Glenn, I think that it’s an Italian-American “thing” (part of my own her­it­age – Abruzzese), but it’s also some­thing else. The idea of lead­ing a life based on suf­fer­ing, car­ry­ing around that kind of guilt – for some people it’s like speak­ing in tongues. I think that Kael instinct­ively reacted against it, often viol­ently. You can feel it in her rejec­tions of HIROSHIMA, MON AMOUR, FIVE EASY PIECES, RAGING BULL and – infam­ously – SHOAH.
    In the “Not our kind, dear” depart­ment, MS was referred to as “the pais­an with his nose pressed up against the win­dow” when he made AGE OF INNOCENCE.

  • Dan Coyle says:

    Didn’t Kael also sneer­ingly dis­miss the above shot from Taxi Driver as Scorsese bor­row­ing from Antonioni, or am I misremembering?

  • Tom Block says:

    I always took the list of “impossibles” to be icing on the cake of the essay’s sub­stant­ive rags on the movie; the over­all push-me-pull-you effect feels like F. and P. each wrote a solo piece and then spliced them togeth­er in altern­at­ing para­graphs. I just happened to watch the movie again last weekend–and Jesus, what a beau­ti­ful thing it is to look at–and for the mil­lionth time I was struck by all the nig­gling incon­sist­en­cies in Travis’ char­ac­ter, some of them writ­ten but mostly in the per­form­ance. Schrader once described De Niro’s turn as delib­er­ately polyglot–that he decided to make Travis as inter­est­ing as he could with­in each indi­vidu­al scene without wor­ry­ing about the pieces fit­ting togeth­er. (It both­ers me less than the char­ac­ter of Iris, who I’ve nev­er believed for a second, and who–probably not coincidentally–is in all of the scenes that drag for me).
    Incidentally, Glenn, I noticed Travis mails the money for Iris to 240 E. 13th Street. Do you know if that’s any­where close to the actu­al tene­ment they used? (I pity the post­man whose job it was to loc­ate the unit she lived in; Travis could have helped him out by address­ing the let­ter to “Little Piece of Chicken”.) I heard some­where, maybe in a com­ment­ary, that the build­ing was already con­demned when they shot the movie, but when I Googled a street-view of that address, the row of build­ings that showed up could very well have been the ones.

  • Graig says:

    Great piece on a great film, Glenn. Thanks.
    The you­tube of the scene you dis­cuss is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2WwDCqdT04
    Every time I watch the scene I am always taken with the sim­pli­city and auda­city of that dolly move.

  • Tom Block says:

    Ack, I for­got to men­tion what I set out to post to begin with. About 10 years ago Letterman showed that shot–it was taken in part of the RCA build­ing, I think–and fol­lowed it with a then-contemporary shot of the same hall­way, all remodeled and spiffed up. I don’t remem­ber why Late Night gave itself such a weird little detour, but it has stuck in my head all these years.
    Also: Kael just wrote some crazy shit some­times. There’s no explain­ing some of her views.

  • warren oates says:

    I have a copy of “The ter­rible schlock nov­el” Farber men­tions. It’s a quick­ie paper­back tie-in nov­el­iz­a­tion of TAXI DRIVER and for the strange­ness factor alone it is far and away the high­light of my tiny rare book col­lec­tion. The con­ceit of the book is to do as books do best and to give us access to Travis Bickle’s inner thoughts. I haven’t been able to make it past the first few pages.

  • EOTW says:

    Kudos to GK for this. TD was THE FIRST film to make me so uncom­fort­able, mostly for the whole porn date sequence and also for the openly frank way that Travis talks to Jodie Foster, among oth­er things. I was just a kid and it freaked me out and yet it was a film I was drawn to over and over again. Day One pur­chase for me.

  • Aaron Aradillas says:

    Yes, Kael did­n’t much care for the shot of the cam­era look­ing away from Travis. She thought it was an Antonioni touch. I love the shot, but freely admit it is the one shot in the entire film that expli­citly calls atten­tion to itself.
    Kael also was­n’t a fan of the score. She felt it played off the film noir tropes of the story. It is inter­est­ing to con­sider how the movie would play if Scorsese had used only source music. The Jackson Browne song is so starling that the movie moment­ar­ily enters some kind of dan­ger­ous pop nightmare.

  • Brian Dauth says:

    Michael: if you are a phil­istine, then so am I. The prob­lem for me with RAGING BULL (and some oth­er Scorsese films) is the creepy sense of admir­a­tion I feel he has for his het male char­ac­ters even when they are at their most mon­strous. As a queer spec­tat­or, I find it dif­fi­cult to nego­ti­ate the inor­din­ate sym­pathy Scorsese shows toward them. He suc­cess­fully limns how the sys­tems they cre­ate even­tu­ally rebound upon and can­ni­bal­ize them, but he presents these events as pos­sessed of a tra­gic dimen­sion which they utterly lack in my eyes (I think Scorsese inher­its this under­stand­ing from Kazan in whose films it can also be found). CASINO is one excep­tion for me, where I feel he dis­tances him­self more from his char­ac­ters and does not engage in any spe­cial plead­ing. Scorsese seems to chan­nel Mankiewicz more than Kazan in his film­mak­ing here, and JLM’s more dis­tan­cing approach allows space for a queer view­er to enjoy the show without hav­ing to fend off con­tinu­al entreat­ies to identify.
    TAXI Driver is also enjoy­able since Scorsese decon­structs the social mat­rix of male het­ero­sexu­al­ity: I had nev­er heard what Tom pos­ted regard­ing how De Niro approached the role, but it makes sense. Travis is com­posed of the shards of male­ness with the glue no longer work­ing: there is a cer­tain glee in watch­ing him fall apart – the quint­es­sen­tial gay bash­er com­mit­ting sep­puku with his own fragments.
    As for the cor­ridor scene, when I saw TAXI DRIVER at Film Forum recently, I thought of the cor­ridor in EAST OF EDEN Scorsese talks about in his and Kent’s Kazan doc­u­ment­ary. It is as if the cam­era were sud­denly bored with Travis’ self-pity and lack of self-awareness, and was pro-actively mov­ing to its next pos­i­tion to hurry things along, beck­on­ing Travis to end the call since his cause was hopeless.
    Kent: as always you cla­ri­fy things for me. Having accep­ted at a tender age my desire for sex with my own kind and determ­in­ing not to feel guilty about it, the idea of liv­ing a life sat­ur­ated with suf­fer­ing and guilt is ali­en to me. Glitter and be gay, I say, and those who wish to con­tem­plate sin, please do so in the most fab­ulous hair shirt pos­sible (made from all nat­ur­al fibers if at all pos­sible!). I always want to like a Scorsese pic­ture, but he some­times makes it dif­fi­cult for those not on his wavelength to do so.

  • @ Brian and Michael, I think: I don’t think the “prob­lem” with RAGING BULL, such as it is, is glor­i­fic­a­tion. Rather, it’s the oppos­ite. The annoy­ing thing about Kael, as usu­al, is more her tone than what she’s say­ing, because what she’s say­ing isn’t entirely wrong. LaMotta is con­sist­ently presen­ted as a mean, stu­pid, charm­less man, and for the first 90 minutes of the movie, Scorsese makes no attempt to tone that down, jus­ti­fy it, or even to offer a second of real human con­nec­tion between LaMotta and any­one to giv­ethe view­er a way in. Don’t get me wrong—I love RAGING BULL, and watch it fre­quently, and I think the jail cell scene and its after­math is all the human­iz­ing you need—but I can def­in­itely under­stand how someone who wants to watch movies about admir­able, hero­ic, or at least inter­est­ing char­ac­ters might find BULL’s learning-averse, ugly, mean, unfunny prot­ag­on­ist to be someone you just don’t wanna spend a couple hours with.
    This is actu­ally an instruct­ive con­trast to TAXI DRIVER, which is made chilling in part because Travis is a genu­inely cha­ris­mat­ic, likable fella. If Bickle was presen­ted as an actu­al dis­con­nec­ted schizo­phren­ic, Betsy would seem like a fool for hanging out with him. But Travis is a soft-spoken, good-looking guy, and a seem­ingly attent­ive listen­er besides (cer­tainly more so than her way less sexy co-worker), which makes her sense of betray­al at the porn theat­er under­stand­able, rather than idi­ot­ic. Perhaps this is more of DeNiro’s frag­men­ted persona—the Travis we see in those early diner scenes is a more present­able Billy Jack, a boy you’d be proud to bring home to moth­er. Consequently, Betsy seems like a smart woman mak­ing a mis­take (and get­ting out the instant she real­izes it), as opposed to Vicki, who’s a dim-bulb too young to know better.

  • christian says:

    Brilliant film­mak­ing aside, I’m of the notion that Scorcese admires these louts, dei­fy­ing their phys­ic­al power and bul­ly­ing. At least with Jake La Motta, there’s a real per­son under scru­tiny or exam­in­a­tion; in CASINO (and even GOODFELLAS), I have no idea why I should care about any of these venal char­ac­ters. It’s a recur­ring theme in mod­ern art, that “dark” has so much more depth than “light.”
    John Carpenter slags on TAXI DRIVER in his Cinefantastique inter­view from 1980: “Depth? What depth?”

  • Pscriswell says:

    You just brought back vivid memor­ies of Summer 1995, when I hauled home a lightly used Pioneer laser­disc play­er and a stack of CLV Criterions from an estate sale in the hoity-toity part of town. Along with a near mint Taxi Driver there was, among a host of oth­ers: Rebecca, Magnificent Ambersons, Blade Runner, Breaking the Waves, King Kong, Singin’ in the Rain, Ghostbusters, Boyz N the Hood, Forbidden Planet, Raging Bull and two cop­ies of 2001.
    The former own­er was obvi­ously a late adop­ter of the tech­no­logy. Aliens and the lav­ishly pack­aged Original Star Wars Trilogy were the only CAV discs I could dredge up from crates and crates of main­stream garbage (like a shame­less, piss poor full­screen VHS-quality ver­sion of Road Warrior) and Disney stuff.
    Long story short it’s a dec­ade and a half later, the motor on my turntable broke, my bulky LD play­er is home to a colony of spiders, and I still haven’t bothered to make the hi-def plunge yet.
    Does any­one know where I can get this brick fixed?

  • Jay says:

    Excellent piece as always, Glenn! I would love to see a the­at­ric­al print show up in my neck of the woods, but that’s highly unlikely. I will hap­pily settle for the new blu-ray and the Criterion com­ment­ary track!

  • Brian Dauth says:

    FB: the prob­lem with the “human­iz­ing” in RAGING BULL is that it does not take for me. When LaMotta cries out: “I am not an anim­al,” I feel like doing a call-and-response and telling the screen: “Oh, yes you are.” LaMotta is presen­ted as pos­sess­ing all the traits and con­structs of a viol­ent, het­ero­sexu­al male. While Travis’ com­ing apart has a ele­ment of the comed­ic, Scorsese presents LaMotta as a tra­gic hero/victim. The prob­lem with this approach is that LaMotta’s patho­logy becomes his tra­gic flaw which does­n’t work (THE AVIATOR has a sim­il­ar prob­lem in its con­struc­tion). What is great for me about CASINO is that Scorsese scru­tin­izes the patho­lo­gies on dis­play without ever try­ing to elev­ate them to the level of the tragic.

  • Oliver_C says:

    John Carpenter has slagged lots of major movies, ‘2001: A Space Odyssey’ included. At least when he gave that Cinefantastique inter­view he was still cap­able of mak­ing a few himself.

  • Aaron Aradillas says:

    Travis Bickle is not the most cha­ris­mat­ic char­ac­ter in the film. That hon­or goes to Sport the pimp. Kael was right when she described him as funny and likable.
    Scorsese seems to admire any char­ac­ter who is ture to his or her nature. We like Henry Hill because he wants what most of us want. He wants a life of com­fort. The only prob­lem is that he has to break the law for that com­fort. He knoww this. We know this. Scorsese knows this. We’re all on the same page. And there’s a price to pay for that level of com­fort. Scorsese knows this, too.
    The idstan­cing one feels in CASINO is what makes it an under­rated mas­ter­piece. Unlike GOODFELLAS, which ends on a coke high, CASINO is a slow decline into regret, murder, and madness.
    Scorsese rarely judges his char­ac­ters, but he will judge their actions.

  • Jason Melanson says:

    @Brian- I think just because Scorsese may try to elev­ate LaMotta’s patho­lo­gies to the level of tragedy does not mean he is not scru­tin­iz­ing them. I agree that Scorsese clearly does have empathy for LaMotta(not to bring up the empathy issue again) but I feel he is very clear eyed about the fact that LaMotta brings his ulti­mate down­fall upon him­self. One could argue that per­haps a more detached approach may have illus­trated that point more clearly, IMO the film woud­n’t be as power­ful but that’s anoth­er issue, but it seems obvi­ous to me that Scorsese is scru­tin­iz­ing LaMotta.

  • Jason Melanson says:

    I for­got to post this in my last post, but Rosenbaum seems to have a a view of TAXI DRIVER that is sim­il­ar to Farber’s and Patterson’s. He starts his review of the 96 re-release with: “Perhaps the most form­ally rav­ish­ing — as well as the most mor­ally and ideo­lo­gic­ally prob­lem­at­ic — film ever dir­ec­ted by Martin Scorsese, the 1976 Taxi Driver remains a dis­turb­ing land­mark for the kind of volup­tu­ous double­think it helped rat­i­fy and extend in American movies.” I am per­son­ally a big fan of TAXI DRIVER, but this piece gave me a lot to chew on when I first read it. I would love to read the Farber/Patterson piece, this is now anoth­er reas­on I need to buy Farber on Film.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Dan, I believe the phrase in ques­tion is “an Antonioni pirou­ette.” Back in those days, cit­ing “influ­ences” and “homages” was per­vas­ive. Sarris detec­ted “mists of Murnau” in the open­ing shot. Manny and Patricia reckoned that MS had “ravish[ed] the auteur box” with ref­er­ences to/steals from FRENZY, WAVELENGTH, Godard, Peter Emmanuel Goldmann, etc. The great unasked ques­tion, though, was what place these ges­tures had in the story.
    You should hear John Carpenter on the sub­ject of John Ford in gen­er­al and THE SEARCHERS in particular.
    Brian, on the sub­ject of MS, EAST OF EDEN and hall­ways, take a look at the scene where De Niro is kicked out of the club in NEW YORK, NEW YORK.
    This ques­tion of ven­er­at­ing and glor­i­fy­ing and roman­ti­ciz­ing people is intriguing because it comes up so fre­quently, par­tic­u­larly in rela­tion to the Coen Brothers. I find it more and more mys­ti­fy­ing as I get older. I can cer­tainly under­stand hav­ing a neg­at­ive reac­tion to cer­tain life­styles or types of beha­vi­or. On the oth­er hand, I don’t think those reac­tions have any place in criticism.
    Is Jake La Motta “tra­gic?” Hmm… Maybe it’s more use­ful to look at the film from the oth­er end of the tele­scope. Personally, I think that everything and every­one under the sun is worthy of being described and por­trayed in art. I see no spe­cial value in mak­ing movies about people who veer toward the light as opposed to the dark­ness – in fact, aren’t most people who live in the shad­ows where they are because of luck and cir­cum­stance? And, if you’re going to make a movie about some­thing – any­thing – if cer­tainly fol­lows that you have to have some kind of affin­ity for whatever you’re film­ing. MS has made quite a few movies about people who are raised to believe that suf­fer­ing and life are one in the same, or who see no altern­at­ive but to live as venally as the people in GOODFELLAS or CASINO (both of which are also based on 100% real people, Christian – in fact, there’s prob­ably more license taken with La Motta than there is with the people in the Pileggi books). Such lives exist, such every­day suf­fer­ing and bru­tal­ity and venal­ity are every­where. And if you have affin­ity for who­ever it is you’re film­ing, you’re obvi­ously going to run the risk of appear­ing to make a case for their actions. If you’re show­ing the attrac­tion of viol­ence, you’re run­ning the risk of mak­ing it look attract­ive or “glam­or­iz­ing” or “val­or­iz­ing” it, to use two exhausted words. That’s a very fine line to walk, and it’s a very dif­fer­ent strategy from the de-mythologizing and de-dramatizing that every­one once thought was the answer to everything. Trying to reduce the movies under dis­cus­sion here to sub­lim­ated admir­a­tion seems hope­lessly reduct­ive to me – they’re way too com­plex for that. Romanticization? Try Michael Mann. Does MS make it “dif­fi­cult” to like some of his movies if you’re not on his wavelength? You bet. I can think of sev­er­al oth­er great film­makers who do likewise.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Jason, “The Power and the Gory” is also avail­able in the new­er paper­back edi­tion of NEGATIVE SPACE.

  • Ian W. Hill says:

    Incidentally, Glenn, I noticed Travis mails the money for Iris to 240 E. 13th Street. Do you know if that’s any­where close to the actu­al tene­ment they used?”
    Not Glenn, Tom, but the address of the actu­al exter­i­or is 226 East 13th (you can see the num­ber over the door in the pull­back after the shoot­ing – not sure why they put the wrong one on the envel­ope). And it’s still there, but all the interi­ors were in a dif­fer­ent build­ing uptown that was indeed sched­uled to be demol­ished (which is why they were allowed to cut a giant trough in the floor/ceiling to do the big over­head shot in that same scene). Travis’ apart­ment was shot in the same now-gone building.
    I used to rent laser­d­isks from a great shop at the corner of 13th and 3rd, and after get­ting the Criterion TAXI DRIVER disk was much amused to dis­cov­er you could see the door­way where Sport is shot from inside the store (that door and build­ing have been com­pletely redone, along with the Variety Theater and unpainted fur­niture shop on 3rd that were still the same in 1990 as when the film was shot).

  • What with all the Pillorying Of Pauline, per­haps it should be men­tioned that her review of “Taxi Driver” is a glow­ing, ador­ing rave. She did­n’t like the Antonioni thing, or Hermann’s score, but how­ever debat­able those points may be, she loved the movie on the whole, praised it to the skies.
    As for Kael’s alleged anti-Italian-Americanism – or anti-guilt or whatever – I’m not sure how that jibes with her raves for “Mean Streets” or the first two “Godfather” pic­tures (“pos­sibly the greatest movies ever made in this coun­try,” she said) or “The Last Temptation of Christ” or her cease­less admir­a­tion for De Palma or her state­ment (to Roger Ebert, I think) that Catholics were mak­ing the best movies (Scorsese, Coppola, De Palma and Altman cited in the mix) due to “the sen­su­al rich­ness of their back­grounds” and oth­er qual­it­ies she found admirable.
    Lastly, and this is slightly off-topic, but whatever faults she may have found with “Five Easy Pieces,” her call­ing it “a strik­ing movie…eloquent, import­ant, writ­ten and impro­vised in a clear-hearted American idiom that derives from no oth­er civil­iz­a­tion” does­n’t sound like a flat-out rejec­tion to these ears.

  • christian says:

    If you were to go back and read the major crit­ics of the day (as I often do thanks to my revered shelf of pub­lished reviews from the National Society of Film Critics) – you might be sur­prised at how many 60’s/70’s “clas­sics” were not always regarded as such. Kael could be vis­ion­ary, as when she noted that THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS was one of the most phe­nom­en­al dir­ect­ori­al debuts ever, and way way wrong when express­ing the notion that Flip Wilson might join the ranks of enter­tain­er pan­theon. I love John Simon’s bitchy review of her gush­ing review of Toback’s FINGERS…

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    @ Craig Simpson: Rather sur­prised to see you weigh­ing in here, giv­en your estim­a­tion of my per­son and works. I shall try to con­tain my emotions.
    Just to note, for accur­acy’s sake, that I was not accus­ing Ms. Kael of “anti-Italian-Americanism.” I made a mildly joc­u­lar remark about why her much-lauded line con­cern­ing “dumb f–ks” in “Raging Bull” got my back up a bit. Kent Jones amp­li­fied it with his rather more damning cita­tion con­cern­ing the “pais­an” crack in her “Age of Innocence” review. I did­n’t know Kael, don’t know how she felt over­all about Italian-Americans, and am not really all that con­cerned about it. I was merely talk­ing about her writ­ing, mode of argu­ment­a­tion, and my reac­tion to it. That is, object­ively, or as object­ively as I can muster, I believe that the “dumb f–ks” line is snob­bish. The “pais­an” line is some­thing else again, but again, I’m not all that con­cerned with it. That is all.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Glenn, sorry if I made things con­fus­ing. That was­n’t Kael who made the pais­an “obser­va­tion.” It was Jonathan Rosenbaum.
    Christian, what you say is not only true of the 70s but of every era. Confronting some­thing in your own time when it’s brand new is dif­fer­ent from look­ing back at it from a distance.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Craig Simpson, I am eat­ing my words about FIVE EASY PIECES. Must have been dreaming.
    Speaking for myself, I don’t want to “pil­lory” Pauline Kael. Just mak­ing an obser­va­tion. I cer­tainly don’t think she was anti-Italianamerican. Nor is Rosenbaum.

  • Hollis Lime says:

    In regards to the abil­ity to relate debate going on above:
    I always sort of resent this top­ic, because it invari­ably, even­tu­ally becomes a plat­form for nar­ciss­ism (not that that’s happened yet here), I.E. “I can­’t relate to that char­ac­ter because he’s too bad” or it becomes a top­ic about “human­iz­a­tion”. Frankly, I’ll admit that I abso­lutely can relate to the char­ac­ters in Scorsese’s films. It was the ini­tial attrac­tion to them when I was 15 and saw Mean Streets for the first time and could feel what Charlie was going through in deal­ing with reli­gion and with someone like Johnny Boy, who reminded me of people I knew grow­ing up. I can relate to LaMotta, and to Hill, and even to Bickle and Pupkin (as much as that is hard to admit, espe­cially in the lat­ter case). I don’t see what’s so “unhu­man” about self-loathing, greed, isol­a­tion, jeal­ousy and the divide between the intern­al and the extern­al. Quite the oppos­ite, I think.
    One of the things that makes Raging Bull, and all of his films, for that mat­ter, so mov­ing to me is because Scorsese does­n’t put any dis­tance between him­self and the sub­ject. We feel their lives from the inside out, and his films are always emblem­at­ic of the les­son I think every human should live by, which is: Be care­ful about judging any­body, because you don’t know what’s going on inside of them. There is no ques­tion to me that LaMotta is a tra­gic fig­ure. There is noth­ing more tra­gic than the man who can not articulate.

  • Glenn: Thank you for your explan­a­tion. I’m admit­tedly guilty of cross-referencing your com­ment here with anoth­er that you tweeted (and got retweeted) a while back: http://twitter.com/#!/ExtAngel/status/38416807429672960 If I mis­read that one too, then I apologize.
    Kent: No prob­lem. Thanks for cla­ri­fy­ing, though.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    One of the many, many reas­ons I gave up Twitter for Lent, and am likely to use it only for pur­poses of pro­mo­tion of my writ­ing if I ever get back on it, is because, des­pite the fact that I sent out sig­nals such as adopt­ing the handle “ExtAngel” (that’s short for “Exterminating Angel,” folks) and even­tu­ally using a PICTURE OF A FUCKING HONEY BADGER AS MY AVATAR, people seemed inclined to take my every utter­ance there as OFFICIAL PRONOUNCEMENTS OF GLENN KENNY, FILM CRITIC, rather than the delib­er­ately exag­ger­ated peev­ish expres­sions they often were. “People don’t ‘get’ you on Twitter,” a friend in the film pro­gram­ming realms observed in one con­ver­sa­tion sev­er­al months back; when I saw him at the screen­ing of “Sailor’s Luck” at MMI this after­noon, he remarked on how my sojourn from Twitter seemed to be doing me some good. and so it has. But thanks a pant­load for the stroll down Memory Lane, Craig Simpson, hope I can do you a sim­il­ar sol­id some time.
    @ Hollis Lime: Yes, exactly. I really envy the people out there who can­’t relate in some way to LaMotta. For who among us has not, in some way or anoth­er, worked to, as the say­ing goes “defeat our own pur­pose?” Maybe one’s own self-destructiveness does­n’t mani­fest itself in such an, ahem, uncul­tured way as LaMotta’s but…I don’t know. I don’t see much point in hold­ing my nose and talk­ing about what an “anim­al” the LaMotta char­ac­ter is. I wrote else­where that from “The Big Shave” to “Raging Bull” to “Shutter Island” one of Scorsese’s great themes has been the man who can­’t stop beat­ing him­self up. The reas­on it’s a man is because…well, these ARE, all the way to “Shutter Island,” per­son­al films.

  • Jette says:

    The pay-phone shot you ref­er­enced is the first shot in TAXI DRIVER that I ever saw – I was in a grad-school film class on altern­at­ive poet­ics, we were study­ing Ozu, and our instruct­or used this scene and one from a Woody Allen film to show Ozu’s influ­ence on oth­er film­makers. The idea being that Scorsese and Allen did­n’t feel the need to dwell on the sub­ject in a shot but would move the cam­era away. In ret­ro­spect, I don’t remem­ber how this ties into Ozu’s tatami shots but that was a good, eep, 18 years ago.

  • Edward Wilson says:

    The phone/hallway shot always reminded me of the long, slow lat­er­al track­ing shot inside the Alexander HOME in A Clockwork Orange…

  • Ryan Kelly says:

    For what it’s worth, Glenn, I always found your tweets hil­ari­ous – and blatantly, as you say, “exag­ger­ated peev­ish expres­sions” – and sorely miss see­ing them in my twit­ter feed. So the humor was­n’t lost on all of us, if that makes you feel any better.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    Thanks Ryan. I nev­er had to worry about the people upon whom the humor WASN’T lost. But being called “dis­grace­ful” by pious tsk-tskers upon whom said humor WAS lost gets really tire­some really quick. Not to engage in a self-pity party, espe­cially after pil­lory­ing poor Pauline Kael, the kind­est, warmest, bravest, most won­der­ful, etcet­era, etcetera…

  • jim emerson says:

    Dear Manchurian Kenny-date:
    Don’t fret. Your tweets were hil­ari­ous – though per­haps more Burroughs’ exterm­in­at­or than Bunuel’s.
    I still have not recovered from see­ing “Taxi Driver” in 1976 (when I was 19). It dis­turbs me more than any oth­er film I can think of, and it has taken me years to under­stand why. Most of it has to do with dir­ect­ori­al style.
    “Raging Bull” feels to me like a cold, intel­lec­tu­al exer­cise – per­haps because (as I later read) Scorsese felt the same way until he agreed to make the pic­ture. The legend (and I don’t know how true this is) is that Scorsese was hos­pit­al­ized and De Niro tried brought him the script, try­ing to per­suade him to make the pic­ture. Scorsese’s ini­tial response was, why would I want to make a movie about this anim­al? But, even­tu­ally, he did. Personally, I’ve always felt an unbridge­able dis­tance between the movie and the char­ac­ter – rather than an engaged ambi­val­ence. “Taxi Driver,” on the oth­er hand, hits me in the gut. Can I explain why? Probably, now, if I had thou­sands of words…

  • The dif­fi­culty of con­nect­ing to LaMotta goes deep­er, I think, than wheth­er he’s human (of course he is, but that’s worth very little) or wheth­er one can identi­fy with him (I mis­trust any­one who says they can’t—there’s few people who’ve nev­er felt the urge to just start hit­ting every­one who bugs ’em, and BULL’s first apart­ment scene does a great job of con­vey­ing how a tight urb­an envir­on­ment pushes that urge). The tough thing about RAGING BULL is that unlike most (American) movie prot­ag­on­ists, LaMotta nev­er seems to want any­thing very much, and what he does want does­n’t even rise to the level of trivial.
    Travis Bickle is crazy, but his desires are, in their own weird and sick way, pure—he wants to do good, but has a com­pletely twis­ted notion of what that entails. Rupert Pupkin’s dreams are pathet­ic and selfish, but he is by god pur­su­ing ’em, and movie audi­ences have proven many times that they enjoy watch­ing someone try to achieve a goal regard­less of the value of that goal. But LaMotta… Perhaps he wants love, or respect, or to be taken ser­i­ously, but his efforts to achieve that are half-hearted, and he’s eas­ily dis­trac­ted from them by his own rage. Maybe what makes some people think he really is an anim­al is that the thing he seems to want most is “a stage where this bull can rage”—nothing makes him as ful­filled as hit­ting things, prefer­ably soft, break­able things, like people, and by the end of the movie we’re left unsure if his desire to break things has over­whelmed his desire for love, or if the desire for love was always a phony over­lay on his deep­est wish, which is to cause pain. Bickle and Pupkin and even Rothstein are tragic—they all want some­thing that they can­’t have, and their attempts to get it take them farther away from their goal. LaMotta is some­thing else.
    I sym­path­ize with—and largely share— Kent Jones’ view that one’s reac­tion to cer­tain life­styles has no place in cri­ti­cism (though I won­der if Jones, or Kenny, would have the same indif­fer­ence to their own reac­tion in a movie about, say, a texting-crazy teen­age girl who does­n’t com­mit a single crime). But it’s worth keep­ing in mind what an excep­tion­al, twentieth-century arti­fact that view is. From Aristotle to Wilde, it’s been a giv­en in cen­tur­ies of Western cri­ti­cism that an prot­ag­on­ist must have some kind of nobil­ity in order to mer­it our atten­tion. Tragedies of the com­mon man like “Machianal”, “Woyzeck”, or “Death of a Salesman” attacked the view that this nobil­ity had to be one of title, but all those works still fea­tured prot­ag­on­ists with recong­niz­ably decent desires, thwarted by cir­cum­stance. LaMotta isn’t thwarted by “luck or cir­cum­stance” (or if he is, Scorsese does­n’t show it to us). He’s just a mean, selfish mother­fuck­er; the kind­est thing you could say about him is that he’s crazy.
    Now to my mind, what makes RAGING BULL such an accom­plish­ment is that it breaks the rules of screen­writ­ing yet man­ages to be com­pel­ling through sheer form­al mas­tery. But I can­’t fault any­one for react­ing as Kael did—it really is a movie about a bunch of dumb fucks wan­der­ing around bump­ing into things, and pretty much the oppos­ite of what a story is sup­posed to be. To react with dis­be­lief or con­des­cen­sion to any­one who does­n’t seem the point of spend­ing hours on it is like being goggle-eyed at someone going to church—it’s not very Modern, but lots of people do it because people did it for millennia.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    @ Mr. Bastard: That’s funny you should bring up movies about teen­age girls, as I’ve actu­ally writ­ten a script whose prot­ag­on­ist is a teen­age girl! Twelve going on thir­teen, to be pre­cise. But there’s no tex­ting in it! Shit, maybe THAT’S why I’m hav­ing trouble find­ing “back­ing.” Clearly I should have con­sul­ted with someone more attuned to the zeit­geist before even con­tem­plat­ing such a project.
    I do enjoy how you’re so eager to come down on Kent and myself for thought crimes we haven’t even com­mit­ted yet. It’s like I’m liv­ing in “Minority Report” or something.
    On a more “ser­i­ous” “note” I was gonna say that, agree with its con­clu­sions or not, Robin Wood’s ana­lys­is of “Raging Bull” in “Hollywood From Vietnam To Reagan” provides a pretty thor­ough lay­out of the film’s them­at­ic rich­ness and rad­ic­al structure.

  • Kent Jones says:

    TFB’s reflec­tions are really inter­est­ing. What does Jake La Motta want? What we all want, without being able to artic­u­late it. Instead, the movie artic­u­lates it.
    Regarding his reac­tion to my com­ment and his notions of what Glenn or I might think of a movie about this or that, one of the things I really dis­like about blogs is that people say things that they would nev­er dream of say­ing in pub­lic. You write some­thing and someone responds with the equi­val­ent of: I agree with you but I have my doubts that you really mean it. Kind of a conversation-stopper.
    All my life, I’ve heard people say things like “I don’t like coun­try music” or “I don’t like movies about rein­carn­a­tion” or “I don’t like movies about tex­ting teen­age girls.” The minute you utter some­thing like that, you’ve left cri­ti­cism behind. You’re also restrict­ing your­self. I’ve seen plenty of movies about people whose com­pany I don’t nor­mally seek out that I love – BORN AGAIN, my pal Michael Camerini’s great doc­u­ment­ary about born again Christians, or DANCE PARTY USA by Aaron Katz. On a more dra­mat­ic level, I walked out of SOUTHLAND TALES the first time I saw it, at the dis­astrous Cannes press screen­ing. 80s nos­tal­gia, com­ic books, a shaggy dog nar­rat­ive pas­tiche, etc. – I thought it was a waste of time. Then I real­ized that I’d been think­ing about it and I went back to sit through the whole thing the next day. I felt the same lack of con­nec­tion to the ele­ments, but I found it pretty impress­ive and some­times moving.
    Hare Krishnas, Goldman Sachs exec­ut­ives, NASCAR, tex­ting teen­age girls – it’s not the sub­ject mat­ter, it’s wheth­er or not the movie is GOOD that is the ques­tion. And by the way, if you’re lookng for a good tex­ting teen­age girl movie, try Lola Doillon’s debut.

  • Dude, really, no thought crimes are being alleged! I’m just say­ing that (male) crit­ics and (male) cinephiles often talk as though one’s per­son­al iden­ti­fic­a­tion with char­ac­ters should be irrel­ev­ant to abil­ity to enjoy a movie, yet it’s pat­ently obvi­ous that (male) crit­ics and (male) cinephiles, how­ever per­son­ally gentle, do identi­fy with viol­ent male prot­ag­on­ists in a way they often don’t with female and/or clean-scrubbed prot­ag­on­ists, and this has a vis­ible effect on what movies get into the crit­ic­al pan­theon. It’s not a crime, it’s just worth acknow­ledging. Christ, the eager­ness to take offense!
    Kent: So what do you think LaMotta wants that the movie’s artic­u­lat­ing? Scorsese makes some lovely lyr­ic­al ges­tures, par­tic­u­larly the first time LaMotta sees Vicki at the pool, but it seems like that’s more a reflec­tion of LaMotta’s passing desire, not a deep super­ob­ject­ivey want. So what is it?

  • Or to put it more suc­cinctly: When someone says their abil­ity to identi­fy with or like a prot­ag­on­ist is com­pletely irrel­ev­ant to their feel­ings about a movie, I have the same reac­tion I do when someone says they can­’t at all identi­fy with Jake LaMotta: “Really?” Again, giv­en that iden­ti­fic­a­tion with a prot­ag­on­ist and per­cep­tion of the prot­ag­on­ist’s nobil­ity has been a basic ele­ment of Western lit­er­ary cri­ti­cism since well before the birth of Jesus, it’s a little sur­pris­ing that people seem to think that it’s an utterly irrel­ev­ant rel­ic. Ideally, a work of art can, through aes­thet­ics, help broaden the zone of what you can identi­fy with to include people you nev­er thought to identi­fy with before—that’s a big part of what art *does*, and why even a form­ally ama­teur­ish movie like JUST ANOTHER GIRL ON THE IRT can non­ethe­less have some potency. But to write it off as a non-issue is to dis­miss pretty much everything writ­ten about art before about 1870.

  • Zach says:

    I think part of the shift that TFB’s talk­ing about has a lot to do with chan­ging socioeco­nom­ic con­di­tions. The concept of a prot­ag­on­ist hav­ing nobil­ity might have always been some­thing of a red her­ring; it makes more sense to me that we identi­fy with the aspects of a char­ac­ter we see in ourselves, good or bad; what’s import­ant is for­ward motion. Back when rulers ruled by divine con­sent, it was easy to exalt them and their struggles, nowadays, not so much (although The King’s Speech is evid­ence that such iden­ti­fic­a­tion has­n’t gone away completely).
    In terms of what makes LaMotta inter­est­ing, I’m of two minds about that ques­tion. On the one hand, it might just be the case that Scorsese’s form­al mas­tery, com­bined with De Niro’s nat­ur­al cha­risma and pres­ence, makes for a slam-dunk form­al coup that dazzles on an almost limbic level. The music, cine­ma­to­graphy, the edit­ing – RAGING BULL has always struck me as a close con­tender for Pure Cinema. On the oth­er hand, I’m not sure if such a thing exists, as attract­ive a notion as that is, and I’m inclined to believe that what LaMotta wants is tan­gible and well-articulated, but it isn’t to be loved or to cause pain (although he prob­ably does want those things too); it’s to be free, utterly and crazily free. So give me a stage…etc – he wants a place where he can slough off the lay­ers of civ­il­ized beha­vi­or and act on pure impulse. To let his id break free and run riot. Of course, attempt­ing to do that always res­ults in suf­fer­ing, but LaMotta is so relent­less in his struggle that he’s impossible not to watch (although I guess not for every­one.) And to make mat­ters more com­plic­ated and inter­est­ing, he under­stands on some level that he can­’t just be a pure anim­al – he needs the box­ing ring, or later, the stage – some zone set aside to indulge in his baser instincts – except man­aging those two aren­as as if they could ever be mutu­ally exclus­ive is a fool’s errand, and so he unravels. I can cer­tainly identi­fy with such an impulse; it’s at least one reas­on I go to the movies, and it makes the “give me a stage” scenes all the more res­on­ant. One per­son’s degrad­a­tion is another­’s transcendence.

  • The Siren says:

    Well, in the sense of see­ing some aspect of myself, I do not identi­fy with Travis or Jake in any way or on any level. I’d have an easi­er time identi­fy­ing with the char­ac­ters in Pather Pachali or Life of Oharu. I do feel as though I’ve had vis­ions of and encoun­ters with Travis and Jake in life, on the news, just tak­ing a freak­ing sub­way ride. But I am much more of Kent and Glenn’s frame of mind. I’m quite guilty of stay­ing in my com­fort zone but when I stray out­side for movies about people I don’t like, or don’t want to know, or whom I wish did­n’t exist, I’m often glad I did.
    Poor Jake La Motta. Of course he’s an appalling human. But am I the only one who thinks E.M. Forster’s “only con­nect” applies to his desires, too? He can only do it with his anger and his fists. If that isn’t tra­gic I don’t know what is.

  • Kent Jones says:

    TFB, for­give me but I think you’re get­ting “iden­ti­fic­a­tion” mixed up with some­thing else. If I under­stood you cor­rectly – and maybe I did­n’t – you were talk­ing about life­styles or milieux. Or, more applic­able here, char­ac­ters whose actions are so repuls­ive that you don’t want to identi­fy with them, so you opt out. When PEEPING TOM came out, that was a fairly com­mon response. I guess that there are some char­ac­ters who make viewers/readers so mor­ally uncom­fort­able that they reject the pos­sib­il­ity of identi­fy­ing with them and take it out on the movie/play/novel (Tolstoy felt that way about HAMLET). But I think there’s a dif­fer­ence between identi­fy­ing with the human­ity in a char­ac­ter and emu­lat­ing their style of liv­ing or affirm­ing their path in life. I “identi­fy” with Jake La Motta (in the movie, that is) along with oth­er delu­sion­al char­ac­ters like the heroines of WHITE MATERIAL or A WOMAN UNDER THE INFLUENCE, but I’ve nev­er beaten any­body up or dragged them by the hair and I won’t be doing it any­time soon. In a way, iden­ti­fic­a­tion is the easy part. That’s why Hitchcock is able to keep us bit­ing our nails along with Anthony Perkins as the car almost does­n’t sink into the lake.
    If Jake La Motta did­n’t “want” any­thing, would there really be a movie there? “Formal mas­tery” is all well and good, but of what? All I can say is that, for me, the human­ity in the char­ac­ter is bur­ied under lay­ers and lay­ers of self-laceration and hurt, so he takes it out on him­self and every­one else. Not uncom­mon. What does he want? To be at peace with him­self and the people he cares about. It’s a big movie, and, like every big movie, a gamble. For me, the gamble pays off. For oth­ers, it doesn’t.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    @ Mr. B: Hey, as Billy Batts says in “Goodfellas,” “I’m breakin’ your balls a little bit, that’s all.”
    Speaking of “Goodfellas,” when I got home from the gym today I found My lovely Wife watch­ing “Crumb” and I saw that part where he was react­ing with some incredu­lity at the fact that his then-barely-ten-year-old daugh­ter Sophie was so trau­mat­ized by a viol­ent scene in “Goodfellas” that she got stom­ach pains, whereupon he muses that, yeah, maybe there ARE some things that kids ought to be pro­tec­ted from…geez!
    Taking off a little from what Kent’s say­ing, I have to admit that one’s own per­son­al situ­ation DOES in some respects cir­cum­scribe the extent to which one “relates,” for lack of a bet­ter word, and hav­ing grown up in part in a house where there was a cru­ci­fx on just about every wall cer­tainly DID inform my reac­tion to “Raging Bull,” and in some senses the relat­ing was once-removed. As, for instance, when Vicky responds “Father of the Bride” after Jake asks her what movie she was seeing…something, not just the cinephile reflex, makes a palp­able response.

  • Sean Howe says:

    I don’t know if it was inten­tion­al, but the Musso & Frank scene in GREENBERG includes a shot that reminded me of Bickle’s phone call.

  • Jimmy says:

    Following up on the above com­ments made by Kent and Glenn…the scene in ‘Raging Bull’ where Jake is tak­ing a bloody, bru­tal beat­ing from Ray Robinson and chooses to wrap his arms through the ropes, cre­at­ing in a sense, his own cru­ci­fix­ion, seemed to me a way for him to do pen­ance. Yeah, I know he tells Ray, “You nev­er got me down…” but it was more than that. Jake is a sin­ner. He has to pay.
    Reminds me of the open­ing scene in ‘Mean Streets’ and Charlie’s voi­ceover, “You don’t make up for your sins in church, you do it in the streets…”
    How these char­ac­ters wrestle with their demons and how they struggle to find their way. I can relate. While not on a grand scale such as with Jake but with Charlie…absolutely.
    I believe one of the reas­ons why these two Scorsese films res­on­ate so deeply with­in me is the way he looks at issues of sin and penance.
    The Catholic in me has always been drawn to these stor­ies. These characters.
    Who I am. Where I come from. What I know.
    Yeah, on some level, I can relate.

  • Brian Dauth says:

    @Jason: I agree that Scorsese does scru­tin­ize Jake LaMotta and his oth­er char­ac­ters, and I agree that his approach is power­ful. But I think the lim­it­a­tion of RAGING BULL is that by not cre­at­ing a space/distance for view­ers who have an exper­i­ence of/relation to male viol­ence dif­fer­ent than his, Scorsese lim­its the appeal of his movie.
    @Hollis: The fact that Scorsese does not put any dis­tance between him­self and his sub­ject leads to some of his films hav­ing vis­cer­al intens­ity that can also be exper­i­enced as an irrit­at­ing insist­ence, like the per­son who shows you home movies of his vaca­tion and nar­rates every moment. There is little space to breathe provided for the view­er with a dif­fer­ent set of exper­i­ences. I agree that Scorsese is tal­en­ted in show­ing LaMotta’s intern­al patho­logy, but whatever the intern­al work­ings, the exter­i­or actions of a per­son are fair game for judg­ment. I prob­ably have a good idea of the intern­al work­ings of the men by whom I was gay bashed; but even if I had no idea, I can state firmly that gay bash­ing is an evil act. LaMotta’s patho­logy is that of the gay bash­er, and hav­ing been on the receiv­ing end of such viol­ence, hav­ing that patho­logy presen­ted sans dis­tance, no mat­ter how art­fully done, is an unpleas­ant aes­thet­ic exper­i­ence. I am sure for anoth­er view­er, who can see with­in her­self the desire/capacity for such viol­ence (and for me, this phe­nomen­on is what is being referred to by the term “iden­ti­fic­a­tion”), the exper­i­ence will be much different.
    @Glenn: I do not think there is any reas­on to envy someone who can­not identi­fy with LaMotta, and I am not hold­ing my nose at his being an anim­al. It is not that his self-destruction plays out in an uncul­tured way, but that self-destructive beha­vi­or is not a human uni­ver­sal. From an early age I real­ized that being gay was a draw­back that cre­ated obstacles for me. I determ­ined that with the odds already stacked against me, there was no need for me to add to my woes by becom­ing my own enemy. In some ways, self-destructive beha­vi­or is an indul­gence that only the priv­ileged can afford to indulge.
    @FB: I have nev­er felt the urge to hit someone because they bug me. I was at the receiv­ing end of such beha­vi­or for the first time in kinder­garten – it was in the play­ground, and I was the dif­fer­ent child who did not run fast enough and was not strong enough. Such incid­ents con­tin­ued for many years and left me with a thor­oughgo­ing abhor­rence of viol­ence – in some ways it was a Ludovico treat­ment admin­istered by school chil­dren. Alas, I do not believe that ever per­son has his own inner Jake LaMotta.
    @Kent: while the sub­ject mat­ter of a work of art can be any­thing, a judg­ment regard­ing the work does include an ana­lys­is of the atti­tude of the work’s cre­at­or toward her sub­ject mat­ter. From Kant through Hegel to James and Adorno, this ele­ment has been cited as cru­cial to aes­thet­ic eval­u­ation. The life of Jake LaMotta is a fine sub­ject for a movie, but the unme­di­ated present­a­tion of LaMotta that Hollis points out, imparts a sense of vis­cer­al power at the expense of nuance. As I pos­ted earli­er, if a view­er is on Scorsese’s wavelength and can feel (rather than just under­stand) the attrac­tion of viol­ence, then I bet RAGING BULL is a power­ful exper­i­ence. If, how­ever, a view­er does not feel that attrac­tion, the film jet­tis­ons the view­er from the work. That is why I so admire CASINO since I believe that Scorsese man­ages the more accom­plished task of cre­at­ing a work that can accom­mod­ate view­ers on whatever wavelength they bring to the screening.
    @Zach: “To let his id break free and run riot” is a won­der­ful descrip­tion of LaMotta’s desire (though I am not sure that it can be con­sidered a “desire” in the strict sense of the word, but is merely a con­sequence of his patho­logy). I will also say that I am a per­son who does not find it impossible not to watch, hav­ing spent a great deal of time avoid­ing such people in attempts at self-preservation.
    @Kent: What does iden­ti­fic­a­tion mean for you? I agree that LaMotta wants some­thing, and your obser­va­tion that he wants “to be at peace with him­self and the people he cares about” is true enough, but so gen­er­al and non-specific that it does not gen­er­ate a high degree of iden­ti­fic­a­tion. But LaMotta’s beha­vi­ors in pur­suit of his desire, I can­not identi­fy with, and I think that iden­ti­fic­a­tion as a meth­od of aes­thet­ic engage­ment con­cerns both the desire (gen­er­al or spe­cif­ic, with great­er spe­cificity pos­sess­ing more poten­tial for stronger iden­ti­fic­a­tion) and the beha­vi­ors engendered by that desire.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Brian, the cre­at­or’s atti­tude toward the sub­ject mat­ter is indeed very import­ant. Who said it was­n’t? Not me. What I do think is that it’s an extremely com­plex issue when you’re talk­ing about cer­tain films, and RAGING BULL is one of those films. I find it silly enough to get into one of those crazy dis­cus­sions of how much or how little the Coens like their char­ac­ters. With RAGING BULL, I think it’s mis­lead­ing to won­der if MS “secretly” wor­ships Jake La Motta, or “approves” of him, or is “attrac­ted” by his viol­ent acts. The feat of the movie, as I see it, is the close prox­im­ity to the char­ac­ter and the “dis­tance” that you keep allud­ing to, occur­ring sim­ul­tan­eously. I don’t recog­nize the movie I know from the com­ments here, which indic­ate some­thing more along the lines of Stallone’s oeuvre, albeit without the “form­al mas­tery.” What I do under­stand is Jim Emerson’s com­ment about cold­ness. I don’t agree with it, but I under­stand it.
    Identification comes eas­ily, I think. It’s where it evolves to that’s the hard part. You’re right, Jake La Motta’s “goal” is not spe­cif­ic enough to gen­er­ate a “high degree of iden­ti­fic­a­tion.” You’re left with noth­ing but his cruelty, and his human­ity. And I am remem­ber­ing a quote from Herzog that I’ve always liked, to the effect that even David Berkowitz has the basic dig­nity of a human being.

  • @ Kent: Sorry, I think I was unclear. No, I def­in­itely don’t mean identi­fy­ing with life­style or milieux. I mean identi­fy­ing in the cath­artic sense, where the audi­ence can sense some kind of com­mon­al­ity of impulse/desire/perception between them­selves and the character.
    I do think, as GK rightly notes, that com­mon­al­ity of life­style and mil­lieux is an undeni­able factor in such identification—one some­times has an imme­di­acy of iden­ti­fic­a­tion with someone from a sim­il­ar cul­ture that’s harder (though far from impossible, or even unlikely) with someone from anoth­er. And I think Scorsese’s movies, being intensely per­son­al and highly sub­ject­ive, really height­en the ques­tion of what role one’s own iden­tity plays in that pro­cess. What many—arguably most—of his male prot­ag­on­ists want, on a very deep level, to suf­fer and be pun­ished. Why they want to suf­fer and be pun­ished is nev­er explained because for Scorsese and Schrader, it goes without say­ing that men want to suf­fer and be punished—I think it was Schrader who said “Marty believes in guilty pleas­ures. For me the ter­m’s redund­ant.” And related to that, I think one can hit a point where there’s such a gap between one’s own exper­i­ence and that of a char­ac­ter that it just becomes impossible to get on that char­ac­ter­’s (and that movie’s) wavelength—it’s not a symp­tom of bad taste to be unable to get into RAGING BULL, it’s just a sign that you can­’t, lit­er­ally, “get into it”.
    You’re dead-on when you talk about how easy it is to cre­ate a cer­tain basic iden­ti­fic­a­tion, as Hitchcock did in PSYCHO. Part of what fas­cin­ates me about RAGING BULL is how relent­lessly Scorsese avoids cre­at­ing such easy iden­ti­fic­a­tion. I find it hard to believe any­one would see the movie as “glor­i­fy­ing” LaMotta’s viol­ence; the movie seems to be doing very much the oppos­ite, shov­ing us away from any cath­artic sense of right­eous ven­gence when Jake lashes out. Scorsese seems to really not want us to empath­ize with him, which is what gives the movie what Jim Emerson sees as a pat­ina of intel­lec­tu­al exer­cise des­pite the very immers­ive shoot­ing style.
    This is a curi­ous con­trast to TAXI DRIVER. While BULL keeps you in Jake’s per­cep­tions, right up to fists com­ing right at the cam­era, DRIVER seems to be shot in a way that pulls you away from Travis (most fam­ously in the above-discussed hall­way shot). Yet the script’s hew­ing to con­ven­tion­al hero’s-journey beats (with delib­er­ate irony, giv­en the debased world Travis inhab­its) cre­ates an almost unbeat­able snap­ping back and forth between being in Travis’ head and on the wrong end of Travis’ hands (or his gun, which is the same thing). It’s curi­ous to think that script struc­ture could be as much, or even more of a factor than dir­ec­tion when it comes to cath­artic iden­ti­fic­a­tion, but I do feel like story struc­ture is some­how cent­ral to the very dif­fer­ent effects the movies’ prot­ag­on­ists seem to have on viewers.
    @ Brian: I think one import­ant thing to remem­ber about Scorsese is that he was nev­er a viol­ent man, even by the gen­er­ally candy-assed stand­ards of the arts. In fact, his exper­i­ence sounds a little closer to yours (and mine)—growing up a weak­ling sur­roun­ded by viol­ent males. What defines his movies is that he’s at once hor­ri­fied by the dam­age viol­ence does, and mes­mer­ized by the heed­less­ness with which it’s wiel­ded. What makes him so interesting—besides, y’know, being a mas­ter of col­or, cam­era move­ment, and music—is that fierce ambivalence.

  • James Keepnews says:

    I think it’s fas­cin­at­ing the degree to which LaMotta/DeNiro, to put it mildly, res­ists likab­il­ity, and thus easy iden­ti­fic­a­tion. But I think film view­ers are more or less engin­eered to sym­path­ize with the prot­ag­on­ist screened before her/him, and G‑d knows DeNiro/Scorcese run with this capa­city in RAGING BULL. I say “sym­path­ize,” pre­cisely because I have a hard time “identi­fy­ing” with the mid­dle­weight wife-beater who bal­loons up and ali­en­ates seem­ingly every­one, even his brother/manager. I mean, do we “identi­fy” with Celine? Yet, we can­’t look away…
    There’s some­thing else about the nature of LaMotta as mis­fit in just about every soci­et­al role provided him – Catholic, broth­er, hus­band, reluct­antly mobbed-up fight­er, pedo­phile nightclub own­er, doing awful routines years later, includ­ing his recit­a­tion of a scene that’s sort of the summa of the Method act­ing that has clearly inspired the star and dir­ect­or – and thus his incho­ate rage gath­ers breadth and depth as the film wears on. He did­n’t get knocked down, but he des­troys seem­ingly everything else in his path because of his nature – a nature, he insists, that is not anim­al (in the scene where we feel the most sym­pathy for him, or at least his fists). I tend to hate the smug exist­en­tial­ism inform­ing the phrase “it is what it is” – fuck­ing as opposed to WHAT? – but so much of this film is just that. It feels so lived in while main­tain­ing an un-didactic dis­tance, it’s prac­tic­ally a doc­u­ment­ary. The twist of the knife for me, after the Olivier/Sugar Ray rhyme/equivalence: “That’s enter­tain­ment.” Wow. Also, ouch.
    A mas­ter­piece. And, no, Jake can­’t date my daughter.

  • christian says:

    One thing we can all agree upon without reser­va­tion is that the final scene in TAXI DRIVER is obvi­ously a dream/fantasy.

  • Kent Jones says:

    TFB, there’s no doubt that one’s own per­son­al exper­i­ence always comes into play. What Glenn said above about the FATHER OF THE BRIDE moment is intriguing, because I know just what he means – there’s some­thing about the des­ultory way she says it, about the fact that it seems like a movie she’d want to see, the fact that she’s mak­ing a bed with one of those carved dark wood frames, in a room with that kind of design – it cer­tainly strikes a chord.
    On the oth­er hand, not too long ago I took anoth­er look at BESHKEMPIR, at this point a sadly all-but-forgotten mid-90s film from Kyrgyzstan by Aktan Abdikalikov. Now, as it hap­pens, I’ve been to Kyrgyzstan, albeit for a total of 2 days, most of it spent in a car or in a screen­ing room. But I could write a book about what I don’t know about Kyrgysz cul­ture and his­tory. And I think it’s a great film. Because the atten­tion that’s brought to what’s filmed is what counts, rather than a famili­ar­ity with what’s filmed. Now, I cer­tainly under­stand that for some people, Italianamerican life is about as for­eign as Kyrgysz life, and that the viol­ence which some­times accom­pan­ies that life is both for­eign and repuls­ive. I grew up with Italian aunts and uncles and cous­ins, and while I did­n’t exper­i­ence that kind of viol­ence I cer­tainly knew a lot of people who did. So yeah, I guess I have a leg up on oth­ers. But I don’t love RAGING BULL because Charlie Scorsese reminds me of my Uncle Tony. Marty and Francis Coppola brought some­thing won­drous to movies, because each in his own way atten­ded to the world in which he grew up with lov­ing care and fero­cious atten­tion to detail – visu­al, beha­vi­or­al, spir­itu­al. People for­get that before MEAN STREETS and the GODFATHER films, Steve McQueen and Natalie Wood were play­ing Italianamericans, in kit­chens filled with pots and pans to cook lots of spa­ghetti. MS and FC atten­ded to their worlds as care­fully as Faulkner did to his. Manny once called them, along with oth­er 70s dir­ect­ors, “impa­tient Prousts.” In the end, I don’t think they were so impa­tient. So, just as with Proust, it’s not a famili­ar­ity with the life being por­trayed but the attent­ive­ness of the artist toward that life.
    I don’t really agree with your point about guilt and pun­ish­ment. I would say that it’s not that MS’ char­ac­ters want guilt and pun­ish­ment but that they think that they’re almost syn­onom­ous with exist­ence – big difference.
    I don’t quite get your point about story struc­ture. If you exam­ine it closely, RAGING BULL is just as care­fully struc­tured as TAXI DRIVER. It’s just that the struc­ture isn’t as evident.

  • Brian Dauth says:

    Kent: Please for­give me if I mis­un­der­stood you. I am con­fused since for me, it appears that on the one hand you say that “…the cre­at­or’s atti­tude toward the sub­ject mat­ter is indeed very import­ant.” In this we agree. Then you say: “…I think it’s mis­lead­ing to won­der if MS “secretly” wor­ships Jake La Motta, or “approves” of him, or is “attrac­ted” by his viol­ent acts,” and I get con­fused. If you mean that we should not con­cern ourselves with what the liv­ing, breath­ing Martin Scorsese thinks about viol­ence, I agree. But I am inter­ested in the atti­tudes and vis­ion of the “auteur Scorsese” whom I detect in his works of art (just as I am inter­ested in the vis­ions of “play­wright Euripides” and “sat­ir­ist Swift” which I ascer­tain from their artworks).
    Our exper­i­ences are dif­fer­ent in that you see both “prox­im­ity” and “dis­tan­cing” occur­ring at the same time, while I exper­i­ence only “prox­im­ity” (and I know well the exper­i­ence of not recog­niz­ing a film from the exper­i­ence of oth­ers: cri­tiques I have read about Almodovar or ALL ABOUT EVE often con­found me). I also under­stand that LaMotta has basic human dig­nity – every­one does. But where I fail is in under­stand­ing how the concept of basic dig­nity comes into play. Is RAGING BULL a test to see if a spec­tat­or can still regard LaMotta as pos­sess­ing basic dig­nity des­pite his viol­ent, abus­ive nature/behaviors? If all it is a chron­icle of a per­son who pos­sesses human dig­nity and acts with great viol­ence, then there is really not much there for me. For me (fol­low­ing Kant, Adorno, etc), a work of art enlarges and extends a person’s under­stand­ing of the world. When we turn from the screen or page or can­vas, our per­cep­tion of the world is subtly (some­times more than that) altered – nuances have been added, depths increased. RAGING BULL does none of this for me – it is a Johnny One Note work of art, and as Lorenz Hart reminds us:
    Poor Johnny one-note
    Sang out with “gusto”
    And just over­lorded the place
    Poor Johnny one-note
    Yelled willy nilly
    Until he was blue in the face
    For hold­ing one note was his ace
    FB: I think you are right that TAXI DRIVER allows a view­er either to be inside Travis’ per­cep­tions or stand out­side of them. That is why I think it is the great­er, more pen­et­rat­ing work of art.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Brian, when dis­cus­sions get into assump­tions over wheth­er this or that artist secretly “approves” or “wor­ships” this or that beha­vi­or, I get uncom­fort­able. By “atti­tude,” I mean some­thing much more util­it­ari­an and far less mor­ally freighted than what you have in mind. When MS films the nightclub in RAGING BULL, or when Renoir films the wed­ding din­ner in TONI, or when Fincher films (actu­ally, recre­ates) Washington and Cherry in ZODIAC, or when Godard films the sea in IN PRAISE OF LOVE to take four very dif­fer­ent examples, they’re not just say­ing to them­selves, “Okay, I have a scene by the sea in the script, so we need to sched­ule two shoot­ing days and book two cam­er­as,” etc., etc. They each want this place, under this light, at this time of day, with this sense of dis­tance here, this sense of prox­im­ity there, and so on. It’s the com­mit­ment to a vis­ion, as opposed to strictly sequen­tial, 2+2 real­ism or worse. On a more basic level, I think that any­one who films some­thing is attrac­ted by it in some way – how could you not be?
    If I remem­ber cor­rectly, you are a prac­ti­cing Buddhist. So let’s say that Jake La Motta is someone with an unquiet mind. I don’t think the film is a test of any kind – that seems more like a descrip­tion of HENRY: PORTRAIT OF A SERIAL KILLER. There is a nar­rat­ive in RAGING BULL. It’s about someone look­ing for…let’s say whole­ness. He arrives at an open­ing toward self-understanding only when he reaches rock bot­tom. As MS has said, it’s a movie about a guy who’s nice to him­self in the mir­ror for a couple of minutes.
    If the movie were noth­ing more than people scream­ing and hit­ting each oth­er, then it would­n’t be worth much. So, what I find over­whelm­ing in RAGING BULL are the extraordin­ary flashes of long­ing and ten­der­ness – the body lan­guage and the ges­tures and the images carry a wealth of feel­ing in that movie.
    In short, I don’t recog­nize the one-note exper­i­ence you’re describ­ing with your Lorenz Hart citation.

  • Jimmy says:

    Something else about ‘Raging Bull’ which has not been men­tioned is the great sound design of the film.
    From the open­ing title sequence, as the beau­ti­ful Cavalleria Rusticana plays, to the box­ing scenes com­plete with everything from flash­bulbs explod­ing, punches land­ing with dev­ast­at­ing fury, along with wild anim­als thrown into the mix for good meas­ure. The nightclub scenes, cool jazzy stuff. Soft piano. It’s all there.
    Much like the sound in ‘There Will Be Blood’ I could just listen to these films and be happy.

  • Oliver_C says:

    One thing we can all agree upon without reser­va­tion is that the final scene in TAXI DRIVER is obvi­ously a dream/fantasy.”
    My per­son­al De Niro dream-o-meter:
    ‘Taxi Driver’ – dream
    ‘King of Comedy’ – dream
    ‘Once Upon a Time in America’ – not a dream
    De Niro’s roles since ‘Jackie Brown’ – I wish it was a dream!

  • Brandon says:

    Schrader was at Indiana University this past week­end where they showed the new digit­al res­tor­a­tion (at their awe­some new Theater).
    I was sur­prised at how adam­ant he was about how unsym­path­et­ic Travis should be to the view­er. He was also insist­ent that the epi­logue is to be taken as com­pletely real­ist­ic (though obvi­ously, inten­tion­ally iron­ic). He referred to the film as “an evil loop” where Travis simply starts all over again in his “met­al coffin”…
    Schrader also said that he still does­n’t like HARDCORE or LIGHT OF DAY since it has char­ac­ters too per­son­al to his fath­er and moth­er, respect­ively, for him to see them as suc­cess­ful films.
    And appar­ently XTRME CITY is still in the works (‘a Bollywood American Gigolo’), if fin­an­cing can come togeth­er and Shah Rukh Khan does­n’t change his mind.…
    He wants Edgar Ramirez for THE JESUIT first, if he can get him.
    Thought some of that was worth passing on here, in case any one was interested.

  • christian says:

    I think that strange shot of the rear-view mir­ror and sting­ing sound is meant to rep­res­ent his final break with real­ity or that he’s still crazy…

  • Kent Jones says:

    Maybe it’s an oft-told story, but the sting­ing sound is a sec­tion of the score run back­ward – MS called Herrmann to ask him for a sting and that’s what he told him to do.
    I think Schrader is too hard on LIGHT OF DAY. I remem­ber lik­ing it at the time.

  • Brian Dauth says:

    Kent: Thanks for respond­ing. The next time I watch RAGING BULL, I will look for the moments of long­ing and ten­der­ness in it. I think my fail­ing is that I do not see LaMotta as search­ing for any­thing: I do not have a strong sense of him as tak­ing autonom­ous action (which is why I do not regard the film as a tragedy). LaMotta is a bru­tal­ized man who bru­tal­izes in con­sequence – a hor­rible real­ity (and “tra­gic” in the pop cul­ture sense of the word), but not tra­gic in the aes­thet­ic mean­ing of term (as I under­stand its devel­op­ment over the centuries).
    CASINO to me is a great example of the late 20th cen­tury iter­a­tion of tragedy: at the exact mid­point of the movie, Sam Rothstein is presen­ted in Lear-like glory (sans pants), and has a choice to make: he needs to say either yes or no (a sign on the right of the image pres­ages what will occur). Rothstein say­ing “no” is com­par­able for me to Hickey telling Harry Hope that his story is a lie; Vladimir and Estragon stay­ing still; or Chance Wayne declin­ing the Princess’ offer of flight. This scene is my favor­ite in all of Scorsese, and CASINO as a whole seems the most auda­ciously con­struc­ted of his films.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Brian, I myself would nev­er use the word “tra­gic” to describe RAGING BULL.
    As a point of interest, CASINO was a long shoot and a longer edit.

  • Kent, “Casino” is one of those films that I like more and more as time goes on (although, hon­estly, there are few of Scorsese’s films that I like less the more I watch and con­sider them). Actually, it may be time to re-watch “Bringing out the Dead,” which is one of the few I haven’t seen since it opened.
    Glad to see someone men­tion the sound design of “Raging Bull” which is indeed gor­geous (and, in the true sense, iron­ic, as with all that glor­i­ous, slightly off-stage opera under­scor­ing the awful bru­tal­ity occur­ing in these tene­ment apart­ments). Particularly like the box­ing sequences, which seem to incor­por­ate the lit­er­al howls of anim­als (quite appro­pri­ately) into the mix.
    And as for the “it was all a dream” read­ing of the “Taxi Driver” finale – that one I nev­er saw. But I did hear, right from the first view­ing, that Herrmann’s score pretty much con­cludes with the same three thud­ding chords as “Psycho.” So whatever the audi­ence’s estim­a­tion of Travis, BH’s is pretty clear.

  • Jeff McMahon says:

    I don’t see how ‘it was a dream’ even mat­ters re: Taxi Driver. The whole film is fic­tion­al to start with, plus it’s all so over­heated and fever­ish, so…

  • partisan says:

    Personally I think “Tess” is a bet­ter movie than either “Raging Bull” (which it com­peted against for best pic­ture) or “Taxi Driver.” I’m not clear why the movie does­n’t have more cham­pi­ons, of for that mat­ter the nov­el it’s based on. Hardy seems to be the pat­ron­ized step­broth­er while Austen, Eliot, James and Dickens got all the praise. If Ford seems to provide an optim­ist­ic view of com­munity, Polanski’s prot­ag­on­ists are often people betrayed pre­cisely by those closest to them, or whom they should trust. In this sense “The Pianist” is a rel­at­ively optim­ist­ic film since it isn’t Adrien Brody’s fel­low Poles who fail them. It’s not their fault that first his Jewish friends are sys­tem­at­ic­ally murdered and then the city of his Gentile fel­low cit­izens is sys­tem­at­ic­ally reduced to rubble.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    For the sake of clar­ity, I just want to say that the com­ment say­ing that “we could all agree” that the end of “Taxi Driver” is a fantasy was a cross-blog joke bust­ing on Jeffrey Wells’ silly insist­ence on this point, and not an asser­tion to be taken ser­i­ously. A little on the obscure meta-level, but I had a laugh. So don’t take it seriously!

  • Kent Jones says:

    Thomas Hardy under­rated? You might want to recon­sider that one.
    Stephen, the sound design is as hair-raising now as it was in 1980. The name of the Supervising Sound Effects Editor was Frank Warner, who also worked on TAXI DRIVER and THE KING OF COMEDY, both just as stun­ning – if you listen closely to the scenes of De Niro alone in his room prac­ti­cing with his guns, the sense of quiet con­cen­tra­tion (the con­stant sound of kids play­ing from below, the click­ing of the trig­ger, the knife being pulled from the leath­er hol­ster, the gun snap­ping into place on that home-made con­trap­tion) is mes­mer­iz­ing; and in KING OF COMEDY, there’s an incred­ible effect where Jerry Lewis real­izes that he’s being tailed by Sandra Bernhard and keeps pick­ing up the pace until he’s run­ning, accom­pan­ied by the nearly sub­lim­in­al sound of tape run­ning at high­er and high­er speeds and then dissipating.
    The score is some­thing else. There’s the Mascagni, and there’s also “Big Noise from Winnetka” – once you’ve seen the movie, the sound of the whist­ling in that song is forever wel­ded to De Niro watch­ing Vicky drive away with the boys in slow motion.

  • Oliver_C says:

    Frank Warner talks about his foley meth­ods on one of the com­ment­ary tracks accom­pa­ny­ing the most recent DVD spe­cial edi­tion (pre­sum­ably car­ried over to the Blu-ray): he’d phys­ic­ally hold the source record­ings in his hands, lit­er­ally let­ting the tape drag, slip and catch between his fin­gers, so that each ‘take’ of the sound effects track had the noises of anim­als, etc dis­tor­ted in a unique and irre­pro­du­cible way.
    Count me among the ‘Casino’ lov­ers too, BTW.

  • Jon says:

    I think a bit of con­text is required for Kael’s “dumb f–ks” quote. From the RAGING BULL review:
    “Listening to Jake and Joey go at each oth­er, like the macho clowns in Cassavetes movies, I know I’m sup­posed to be respond­ing to a power­ful, iron­ic real­ism, but I just feel trapped. Jake says, “You dumb f–k,” and Joey says, “You dumb f–k,” and they repeat it and repeat it. And I think, What am I doing here watch­ing these two dumb f–ks? When Scorsese did MEAN STREETS, ALICE DOESN’T LIVE HERE ANYMORE and TAXI DRIVER, the scenes built through lan­guage and incid­ent, and oth­er char­ac­ters turned up. But when he works with two act­ors and pushes for raw intens­ity, the act­ors repeat their vap­id pro­fan­it­ies, goad­ing each oth­er to dredge up some hos­til­ity and some vari­ations and twists. And we keep look­ing at the same faces – Jake and Joey, or Jake and Vickie. (They’re the only people around for most of this movie.) You can feel the dir­ect­or sweat­ing for great­ness, but there’s noth­ing under the scenes – no sub­text, only this act­or’s ver­sion of ten­sion. Basically, the movie is these dia­logue bouts and Jake’s fights in the ring.”
    She does­n’t just pull the phrase out of nowhere, as could be con­strued from the impres­sion giv­en above. I must admit, it nev­er occurred to me before now that using the words of the char­ac­ters to com­mu­nic­ate her frus­tra­tion with the sequence could be con­sidered con­des­cend­ing, but that’s anoth­er lim­it­a­tion of mine I suppose.
    Also, the Criterion TAXI DRIVER laser­disc came out in 1990, and was almost cer­tainly recor­ded in that year – the 1986 labelling by Sony seems to be entirely erro­neous. (The Criterion laser­disc RAGING BULL com­ment­ary track with Scorsese and Thelma Schoonmaker was also recor­ded that year, but has been present on all the RAGING BULL DVD and Blu-ray spe­cial edi­tions since 2006.)

  • Kent Jones says:

    Apart from the Cassavetes put­down, which really IS con­des­cend­ing, what jumps out at me is: “…there’s noth­ing under the scenes – no sub­text, only this act­or’s ver­sion of ten­sion.” And: “You can feel the dir­ect­or sweat­ing for great­ness.” Which reminds me of Manny Farber telling Jim Hoberman that it was “too aggress­ively ambi­tious.” David Thomson wrote some­thing sim­il­ar in the early 80s, tak­ing issue with the movie’s stream of verbal obscen­it­ies. Andrew Sarris thought that it was a breath­tak­ing film, albeit without a mor­al com­pass. And there was anoth­er com­plaint that was voiced a lot at the time, per­fectly encap­su­lated by my old friend Tom Allen when he called the film “undi­luted vin­eg­ar” and deemed it “shock­ingly depressing.”
    30 years+ later, a lot of people for­get what a strange object RAGING BULL was when it appeared for the first time. It did­n’t oper­ate like any­thing else around and I think it con­foun­ded a lot of people. It still does. Personally, I don’t recog­nize the movie I know in any of the above descrip­tions (for instance, I think it’s ALL sub­text), but it remains very tough to describe. I think that every­one got a piece of it, and that if you were to put togeth­er Kael’s qual­i­fied admir­a­tion of the film’s blunt poetry (which comes at the end of her piece), Manny’s trib­ute to the film’s tech­nic­al aston­ish­ments, Sarris’ cita­tion of “breath­tak­ing new dimen­sions of memory and regret,” Jim Hoberman’s “trib­ute to stone-age male­ness,” Ruby Rich’s focus on gender, Robin Wood’s focus on the homo­sexu­al sub­text and Thomson’s acknow­ledg­ment of the obscene music of the lan­guage, you’d arrive at some­thing like a just por­trait of RAGING BULL.

  • Jaime says:

    Kent, right on with the second para­graph. Funny how that Mt. Rushmore of 1980s film crit­ics & schol­ars could sketch out the neg­at­ive space around RAGING BULL without com­ing to grips with it on their own.
    It remains a pro­foundly strange film. The sound design alone is mag­ni­fi­cently bewil­der­ing. That seems to be the semi-visible water­mark for a great work of art: you don’t quite know how to deal with it, but you know you have to deal with it, somehow.
    (Which is a strike against Kael, I think. A lot of her writ­ing con­veys the idea, fre­quently very close to the sur­face, of “I don’t have to deal with any­thing. Either flood me with unchecked exuber­ance or be on your way.)

  • Kael’s demand to be sat­is­fied, her refus­al to try to meet a movie halfway, is annoy­ing. But so com­mon among crit­ics that it’s almost not worth com­plain­ing about, like cancer.
    Those long Jake vs. whoever’s-around battles are ali­en­at­ing, though, it’s quite true. In a weird way, the movie reminds me of Tarkovsky, and not just because the edgey-yet-surreal eye-level black-and-white pho­to­graphy calls ANDREI RUBLEV to mind. There’s the same fas­cin­a­tion with delib­er­ate excess—as in Tarkovsky, scenes go on long after you’ve got­ten “the point”. And then, you either get bored—as many did—or else you enter a new kind of per­cep­tion, where the con­text of the action becomes more enga­ging than the action itself. When Joey and Jake con­tin­ue yelling at each oth­er, I find my eye drift­ing away from the men and towards the room, which I think is exactly the inten­ded effect.

  • Kent Jones says:

    You know, I think you’re both being a little too tough on Pauline Kael. Every crit­ic has to deal with the prob­lem of a rhet­or­ic­al stance, and speak­ing a lan­guage that respects the pro­vi­sion­al nature of cri­ti­cism as you’re grap­pling with a movie is a tall order. What’s import­ant is that she took RAGING BULL ser­i­ously. I think she had a pretty spe­cif­ic notion of the ideal cine­mat­ic exper­i­ence, to which it did not con­form, along with sev­er­al oth­er great movies. But she tried to deal with the movie hon­estly, and I’ll take that over a dozen mind­less raves.

  • Our host jokes that she’s a big­ot, and *I’m* being too hard on her? 😀
    But yes, you’re quite right, Kael isn’t the phil­istine she can seem in out-of-context quotes. I’ve nev­er quite for­giv­en her for dis­miss­ing my beloved MARIENBAD, but yes, she’s an hon­est grappler.

  • Glenn Kenny says:

    Yeah, ar ar ar.
    I was recently at an event where a pre-code pic­ture was screened with a Q&A with a prom­in­ent crit­ic who was a late par­ti­cipant in the auteur­ist wars, and the mod­er­at­or really went after Kael with a couple of ques­tions, which struck me as odd for a num­ber of reas­ons, not least of which was the fact that Kael did­n’t really espouse the things this guy was accus­ing her of by implic­a­tion. Anyone who reads “5000 Nights at the Movies” can see that she had as keen an appre­ci­ation for ’30s American cinema as any crit­ic you can name, and that she had a healthy dis­trust for that which she deemed self-consciously artist­ic or “artist­ic.” Certainly she differed with the likes of Sarris over how SERIOUSLY these films and their dir­ect­ors ought to be taken, but she cer­tainly did­n’t hold them in dis­dain. As a res­ult, I found myself in the pecu­li­ar (for me) pos­i­tion of stand­ing up for Kael to said mod­er­at­or after the Q&A, and he in fact con­ceded my points.
    Engaging Kael’s work can be uniquely chal­len­ging for a lot of reas­ons that have noth­ing to do with her work: the fierce and some­times defens­ive loy­alty that many of her sur­viv­ing friends in the cri­ti­cism rack­et have toward her, the fans who did not know her but who non­ethe­less have this Raymond Shaw thing for her, all the vari­ous skir­mishes and resent­ments she stirred up in her career, and of course her own caprices. Caprices are hard to hide when you’ve writ­ten as volu­min­ously as Kael did, and they’re cer­tainly dif­fi­cult to avoid on dead­lines. Her greatest strength could also be her greatest weak­ness, I believe:I can­’t think of any oth­er post-Warshow crit­ic who was so unabashed in describ­ing her dir­ect exper­i­ence of a movie. As sharp as her intel­lect was, always, you always got the sense of a prim­al response. If you felt that too, you were exhil­ar­ated; if you did­n’t, you were exas­per­ated. Could she be con­des­cend­ing? Absolutely. But the con­des­cen­sion was nev­er affected; it derived dir­ectly from who she was and where her sens­ib­il­ity was loc­ated. Although I nev­er con­nec­ted all that vis­cer­ally to her stuff in a pos­it­ive sense, I’ve even­tu­ally come around to the value of it.

  • Jaime says:

    I agree with what Richard Brody said about Kael. A great writer, but not a great critic.
    I went through a Kael phase in my teens the way some people go through an Ayn Rand phase. Yeah. I still think she cla­ri­fies suc­cinctly AND in near-sensual terms the cinema’s sin­gu­lar “con­tact high” bet­ter than any­body who ever lived. But the cred­ib­il­ity of her judg­ments has dimin­ished greatly – with me, anyway.
    Also, I con­fess that I don’t read reviews much any­more. In all but a few cases, read­ing film cri­ti­cism is pain­ful to the point of mas­ochist­ic. Present com­pany excluded, of course.

  • Jaime says:

    In oth­er words…what Glenn said.

  • christian says:

    Scorcese shoots these mano-y-mano bouts between Jake and his broth­er like a sweaty box­er des­per­ate to land one con­nect­ing blow; it’s that crazy-game-crazy that we’ve come to expect from this fevered dir­ect­or. The end­less “fuck you’s” grate then take on the dimen­sion of poetry by lim­ited pugil­ists, with none of Ali’s wit, bravado or cha­risma. DeNiro acts like LaMotta fights and we in the audi­ence suf­fer the blows. Sadly, we can­’t punch back.”
    – excised para­graph from Kael’s ori­gin­al RAGING BULL review

  • Gabriel says:

    Lack of a “mor­al com­pass”, which comes up fre­quently as a crit­ic to the film (Sarris, Bliss), is par­tic­u­larly per­plex­ing in evid­ence of the film itself, which pretty much is con­cerned with the idea of a char­ac­ter com­ing to terms with him­self. I mean, what’s more “mor­al” than that? Scorsese also employed the word “res­ol­u­tion” often in inter­views at the time of the film’s release.

  • Brian Dauth says:

    I think that Scorsese’s com­bined triumph/failure in RAGING BULL is that he cre­ates a com­plete, immers­ive cine­mat­ic exper­i­ence – Wagner’s ges­amtkunstwerk as a Hollywood fea­ture. The verisimil­it­ude he achieves comes at a price, how­ever – a spec­tat­or can feel like he is being pummeled (espe­cially if he has been on the receiv­ing end of het male viol­ence). In RAGING BULL, Scorsese brings to per­fec­tion a new type of cinema, but in jet­tis­on­ing the dis­tan­cing devices oth­er art works have used, he engenders new issues. The dis­tan­cing devices facil­it­ated recep­tion by a broad audi­ence, but with this more imme­di­ate cine­mat­ic exper­i­ence, I believe the pos­sib­il­ity exists of the spec­tat­or being thrown out of the movie. It seems to me that there is ali­en­a­tion as in dis­tan­cing, and ali­en­a­tion as in mak­ing the audi­ence hos­tile (I had a fine example last night. I went to the NYC Opera and saw “Monodramas” con­sist­ing of three modern/experimental oper­as by Zorn, Schoenberg, and Feldman. The last was Morton Feldman’s “Neither” with a lib­retto by Samuel Beckett, and was all any­one could ask for in terms of opera, Feldman, and Beckett. But it was clear that for some people, these works repulsed their attempts to engage it. While Feldman may put people off with his aton­al­ity and dis­son­ances, Scorsese runs the risk of put­ting people off with that “aggress­ive ambi­tion” Manny Farber detected.)
    I under­stand what FB is refer­ring to about Scorsese’s desire to have a spectator’s “eye drift­ing away from the men and towards the room,” but I am not sure that sure that I agree that the mech­an­ism works the same in his work as in a scene from Tarkovsky or oth­er dir­ect­ors. I have exper­i­enced those moments of “new per­cep­tion” that FB refers to, but it has nev­er occurred when a scene involving viol­ence has gone on too long (accord­ing to my inner viol­ence chro­no­met­er). Violence causes me to dis­en­gage, and the more pro­trac­ted it is, the harder it will be to get me to re-up with the film. Of course, oth­er spec­tat­ors may be able to move to a “new per­cep­tion” dur­ing pro­longed scenes of violence.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Glenn, I feel pretty much as you do. 15 years ago, I would have agreed with Richard Brody’s assess­ment, but not now, because in the end I really don’t think there’s a dis­tinc­tion (I did once write pretty much the same thing about Anthony Lane, but what I should have writ­ten was “good humorist…lousy crit­ic,” or some­thing like that). Many people con­tin­ue to por­tray her as some kind of evil sor­ceress, but most of them har­bor pre­ju­dices just as pro­nounced as her own. I think that she had an issue with films that betrayed a cer­tain ser­i­ous­ness of pur­pose – even the slight­est bit of aes­thet­ic self-consciousness seemed to make her nervous. She appeared to believe that there was only one par­tic­u­lar kind of energy in cinema – propuls­ive. But in the end, what kind of dam­age do people think she did? HIROSHIMA, MON AMOUR, MARIENBAD, DAYS OF HEAVEN and SHOAH have all got­ten along just fine without her sup­port, as have RAGING BULL and GOODFELLAS (and those reviews are hardly pans). It’s not like she barred the doors to the theat­ers and burned the neg­at­ives. As you say, noth­ing she did was affected. She was often hil­ari­ous, and for me read­ing her at her best was like listen­ing to a great early 70s album – MUSIC OF MY MIND, say, or GONNA TAKE A MIRACLE. I mean that as high praise.

  • christian says:

    I dis­agree with about 85 per­cent of John Simon’s reviews but still find him always read­able and insight­ful, tho he’s too often plugged with bile. But he’s often straight up hil­ari­ous in his take on THE GRADUATE’s tone-shift in the middle, writ­ing that “the film crosses this line as if it had dip­lo­mat­ic immunity.” Kael is always great to re-read, espe­cially her take­down of PAINT YOUR WAGON. I don’t have to agree to find them fas­cin­at­ing, as I don’t have to “identi­fy” with the char­ac­ters in RAGING BULL to appre­ci­ate (or not) the film.
    And then Wells poin­ted out that TAXI DRIVER was prob­ably shot in 16mm.
    Kael could­n’t com­pete with that level of cine­mat­ic knowledge.

  • Jon says:

    It itched me from earli­er, so I went back and checked – the Kael-attributed quote of FIVE EASY PIECES being “a strik­ing movie…eloquent, import­ant, writ­ten and impro­vised in a clear-hearted American idiom that derives from no oth­er civil­iz­a­tion” is actu­ally Penelope Gilliatt. She and Kael dur­ing the 1970s shared the film crit­ic pos­i­tion at the New Yorker in six-month shifts. From what I see, Michael Dare erro­neously attrib­uted it to Kael in his Criterion laser­disc liner notes (still on their web­site) and it’s been per­petu­ated else­where since.

  • Kent Jones says:

    Jon, that’s really inter­est­ing, and thanks for point­ing it out. The prose did­n’t sound like Kael to me and it seemed like an odd movie for her to like. I do remem­ber a ran­dom, dis­par­aging remark she made about FIVE EASY PIECES, somewhere.

  • Jon says:

    There’s quite a few neg­at­ive remarks about FIVE EASY PIECES through­out Kael’s oth­er writ­ings in the 1970s (check the indexes of DEEPER INTO MOVIES and REELING for a full run­down), at greatest length in her review of the Carol Eastman-scripted PUZZLE OF A DOWNFALL CHILD.

  • Jon says:

    Or Carole Eastman, if you prefer.

  • Thaddeus Proffitt

    Really inform­at­ive article.Much thanks again. Will read on…