Rivette’s Histoire de Marie et Julien: not even nominated, most likely.
Let’s begin with a fundamental fact: lists are bullshit. Lists are such blatant bullshit that any magazine person will admit to you that they’re bullshit. Some might need to have had a couple of drinks first, others might be more effectively cajoled by having you complain for the millionth time in the course of a conversation about how your own favorite cultural artifact was left off some list or another, but they’ll admit it. Furthermore, even lists purportedly based on data and research and objective standards are, at some level, bullshit. That U.S. News and World Report annual list of America’s best colleges? Guess what.
Another thing: the bigger and more putatively comprehensive the list, the greater the intensity of bullshit. I should compare this to decibel measurement, wherein each individual decibel represents ten times worth of increase. This is worth remembering when considering that Entertainment Weekly’s June 27/July 4 double issue, “The New Classics,” purports to present “The 1000 best movies, TV shows, albums, books and more of the last 25 years.”
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves quite yet. “Glenn,” I hear you asking, “if lists are such bullshit, why do magazines and websites do them almost all the frickin’ time?”
Well, because lists are putatively “fun.” People notice them, argue about them. They take them fairly seriously, pretty much regardless of what their sources are…oddly enough. For a magazine in particular, a list is a potential goldmine of publicity. It gets your product noticed. TV news, radio outlets, they LOVE lists.
Lists are also, in case you’re interested, real bears to put together. I say this as someone who, at Première, had a hand in a whole bunch of listy features—“The 100 Greatest Movie Lines of All Time,” “The 100 Greatest Movie Characters of All Time,” “The 50 Greatest Movie Posters of All Time,” “The Ten Greatest Movie Toenail Clippings of All Time,” what have you. (One of my most memorable media moments was going on CNN to talk up a “10 Greatest Sex Scenes of All Time” list, which, being Première’s resident sex expert, I both curated and wrote solo. Operating on the principle that the brain is the most potent erogenous zone, I picked several scenes in which no sex actually occurs, or is depicted—Blow Up’s erotic photo session pas de deux was #1, Belle de Jour’s buzzing box was in there. My interlocuter for the session was the then-rising star Anderson Cooper. First thing out of his mouth: “How come there are so many old movies on this list?”) I won’t walk you through the process, but I imagine you can imagine. I’ll just say that, as I read Thom Geier wax thusly in the general introduction to the EW double issue:
As the famously cantankerous Yale professor Harold Bloom notes in The Western Canon, “Contemporary writers do not like to be told that they must compete with Shakespeare and Dante.” But these days, the Bard and Beethoven must compete with living artists, too: with Steven Spielberg and Paul Thomas Anderson…
…I dearly wished he hadn’t gone there (and indeed, if we were to truly try to take apart all the foul received notions of culture lurking in those mere 49 words, we’d be here all night), but, BUT, I understood why he did—you need to do a lot of reaching to produce anything that’s not already list-intro boilerplate these days.
The need to be different—to distinguish your list from other lists—seems to drive a fair number of the choices here. You think Leah Greenblatt really means it when she says “Never mind Nevermind” at the beginning of the entry for Nirvana’s MTV Unplugged in New York, #11 on the music list? Unless you’re a devoted, hidebound subscriber to the prog school, to do a ranking of the 100 best (pop) albums from 1983 on and not just leave off Nevermind but actually dismiss it is an act of either insanity or deliberate calculation. I’m voting for the latter. What it most certainly is not is an expression of any kind of individual sensibility. (N.B., lists that do express an individual sensibility tend to be the most bullshit-free kind; Jonathan Rosenbaum’s alternative canon in his book Essential Cinema, for instance.) It’s the expression of a carefully calibrated corporate sensibility, in which even the curveballs are likely bereft of genuine quirk. And until we’re in a socialist world, media professionals who want to actually make a living are going to have to hew, to one extent or another, to a corporate standard. (In case you believe I’m counting on the actual coming of an actual socialist world, incidentally, calm down. I haven’t listened to a single Henry Cow record today. Really.)
Every magazine has to determine, not just at one point in its existence but over and over again, the extent to which it is going to toggle between flattering and challenging its readership. This applies as much to Cinemascope as it does to Entertainment Weekly, believe it or not. And for whatever reason—and I suppose we could all guess at more than one—with its “New Classics” issue, for whatever putatively unpredictable choices it offers up, EW falls squarely into the flattery end of things. For its movie list (you were wondering when I was gonna get to that, huh?), the magazine’s ballsiest move is giving Lynch’s Blue Velvet the #4 spot. But the choice to avoid even perceived challenge at some point leads to actual insult. Put it this way: let’s say you, the English-speaking reader of Entertainment Weekly, don’t have much use for foreign language films. But that you are, improbably enough but nonetheless, otherwise a reasonably literate, well-informed individual with solidly mainstream tastes. That being the case, what do you make of the proposition that out of every single film released between 1983 and 2008, a mere six foreign language pictures are good enough to be placed in a ranking of the “best” (“most brilliant, outrageous, inspiring, addictive, hilarious, life-changing Classics,” as per the art-director-imposed issue-opening spread) one hundred?
Any actually fair-minded individual would have to accept that it is a thoroughly, deeply, absurd, indefensible, proposition. For the record, the six on the EW list are, in ascending numerical order, In the Mood For Love, #98; Y Tu Mama Tambien, #85; All About My Mother, #69; The Lives of Others, #56 (right behind Risky Business!); Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, #49; Wings of Desire, #28. America still hates the French, apparently.
Like I said, lists are bullshit. Then again, they sell magazines, start conversations, inspire lengthy blog posts.
UPDATE: My friend Joseph Failla chimes in:
We’ve spoken about the importance of making film lists when you were doing them for Première. I remember you had to fight to get a number of personal choices listed, which couldn’t have been easy when these things are done by commitee. The evening news did a story on Première’s “100 Greatest Movie Stars” and asked people on the street who they thought #1 would be. When they announced it was Cary Grant, most of the reactions seemed disappointed and confused but as you say, lists are created to stir things up.
I was always surprised by how seriously my customers took the AFI listings [Joe ran the DVD section at Tower Video in Paramus], even though I explained they were made to stimulate sales as they were restricted to titles only available on video. I think people like to have these things broken down for them and then enjoy arguing about the results.
I’ve been particuarly upset by the suggestion of updating classic film lists by saying Citizen Kane has lost its importance among today’s movie fans. I can’t see how Kane can ever lose it’s relevance. At first I didn’t take these calls to de-throne Kane seriously but after reading some of the notions of film critics you’ve taken exception with online, I’m no longer so sure these thoughts aren’t out there. Replacing Kane with, let’s say, The Godfather because more people today are familiar with it, is truly nonsensical.
When Roger Ebert was questioned what was the greatest film of all time, he said it had to be Kane. The reporter didn’t seem satisfied and tried to get Ebert to be more imaginative. Ebert countered, “I’d still have to go with Kane.” So say what we will about some of Ebert’s more questionable opinions, at least he sticks to his guns and won’t be replacing Kane, Welles, Toland, Herrmann, Mankiewicz or any of their contributions anytime soon.
All my observations about lists aside, I am rather proud to say that as far as that Première “100 Greatest Movie Stars” package was concerned, the choice of Cary Grant for the top spot was an absolutely unanimous and instantaneous one. Which is one reason that I miss the magazine, and my colleagues, as much as I do.
Not listening to a single Henry Cow record today? I’m outraged!
Now that you are free of your corporate overlords, I expected “The 100 Greatest Henry Cow Songs” to be posted by now. Or at least, given your presumed expertise with clippings in all media, “The 10 Greatest Dagmar Toenail Clippings of All Time.”
Your Public Wants To Know!
ps–I know you must be playing “Winter Songs” now–stop it! Art Bears are hopelessly commercial sellouts! I’ve got the single to prove it!
pps–any one know of any soundtrack work by any H. Cow members?
That EW list was not to be tossed aside lightly. It was meant to be thrown with great force. (Thank you, Mrs. Parker.)
Seriously, I think there were two – TWO – foreign-language films there, “Wings of Desire” and “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.” TWO.
So, I guess the last quarter-century of Hong Kong, French, Italian, Iranian, Mexican and Romanian cinema was pretty much a wash, eh?
Call it the best of the last 25 years of American cinema, if you want. Call it the best of the last 25 years of cinema for people who can’t read subtitles. But best BEST?
John, turn over a Sally Potter soundtrack and you’ll find at least one contribution from Fred Frith. Lindsay Cooper also scored some of Potter’s early film work. Prior to that, Potter was a singer and librettist in some Cooper ensembles. Chris Cutler scored a Belgian film named “Change” in 2001; a concert by Cutler is the subject of the concert doc “June 12, 1998,” directed by Shinji Aoyoma of “Eureka” fame. Either of these pictures is just a Netflix queue position away…NOT.
Stephen, the four other foreign language pictures I mentioned are in the final-fifty section of the list. There are no descriptions of these in the print version but they do have blurbs on the website.
Ah, thanks Glenn. Hadn’t gotten to the fine print. Still find it amazing, though, that even with that extra nifty-fifty they can’t seem to find room for one damn movie in Farsi. Sheesh.
Some lists – 1,001 Movies to See Before You Die, for example – can provide interesting debate. Others- the recently upgraded AFI 100 list, the EW list – not so much. Of course, EW was going to include Pulp Fiction, Blue Velvet, etc. And deservedly.
But Napoleon Dynamite, Office Space, Fatal Attraction, Austin Powers, Swingers, The 40 Year Old Virgin, Men in Black, Clueless, Shrek, The Bourne Supremacy, Spiderman 2 and Casino Royale? Really? And did I mention Napoleon Dynamite (!) ?
While, at the same time, no Decalogue, Mulholland Dr., Gangs of New York, Magnolia, Being John Malkovich, Kiezlowski’s Color Trilogy, Jackie Brown, Chungking Express, Dead Man or any Jim Jarmusch film for that matter, Talk to Her, any film by David Cronenberg, Almost Famous, Traffic or The Thin Red Line?
And, although they were obviously not as widely seen, any number of films by: Bela Tarr, Hou Hsiao Hsien, Claire Denis, Theo Angelopoulos, Aleksandr Sokurov, Tsai Ming Liang or Apichatpong Weerasethakul.
I guess this begs the question of what “classic” means- most widely viewed at a specific moment in time or most influential over a period of years?
Nathan, “1001 Movies to See Before You Die,” not to mention David Thomson’s “Have You Seen?…” are less likely to provoke offense right off the bat for two reasons: wider scope and less hierarchical.
The first set of films you cite is actually pretty staggering. Leaving “Being John Malkovich” off of the movie list is as dicey a move as leaving “Infinite Jest” off of the book list.
But then, I think this all speaks to my initial point. (Not that we should stop talking about it!)
I agree with you – lists are bullshit. Occassionally interesting bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless.
That being said, did they leave “Infinite Jest” off the list? I think my brain exploded after I noticed their omission of “White Noise” and “Blood Meridian.”
And I’d venture that Nirvana’s “MTV Unplugged in NY” would likely make many people’s Top 100 CDs In a Dusty Box on the Closet Floor List.
I don’t want to be a defender of stupidity, but maybe calling these lists “New Classics” is meant to be different from simply calling them “the best.” Maybe they’re judging by how often TBS, AMC, USA, and Comedy Central will run them over the next decade, fooling us all into thinking that a mediocre-at-best entertainment is really a treasured piece of our shared cinematic heritage. The book list, however, seems so ridiculous that I won’t even look at it. No “Infinite Jest”? Really?
Heh, thanks for weighing in.
I should state here that I don’t have the highest opinion of EW, but I understand that they’re a mainstream pop culture rag. So really, I approached the list as “OK, it’s going to be a list of mainstream pop culture movies that everybody knows.”
Even so, by those standards? Yikes, somebody dropped the ball big time. Why “T2” when you could have the original “Terminator”? Why no “Princess Bride”? And for the love of God, can we please forget about “The Lion King”???
That said…at least they left off “Independence Day.”
Personally, I love lists for all the reasons you stated, but especially for provoking debates. Unfortunately, I’m surrounded by friends and family that don’t share my love of cinema, and the arrival of lists like these are the only occasion for me to debate about the relative merits of movies.
That being said, My favorite lists are the ones that introduce me to films I was previously not familiar with.
But I do appreciate the AFI lists that you criticized. They may leave a lot of films off (especially foreign). But if you take it as a given that it is anglo-centric, they do serve as a great primer for the film neophyte.
I wasn’t sure if I’d be the only one furious about the absence of Infinite Jest.
Nice to know I’m not alone.
And the DeLillo, too.
“the last 25 years of cinema for people who can’t read subtitles”. Touché. Seriously: why americans don’t read subtitles?
Because if Joe Moviegoer wanted to read, they’d buy a book– only I don’t think they’d buy a book.
“Lists are silly. There, we said it. You know it, we know it, and you’re still flipping through this book, aren’t you? Because making lists – and arguing over them – is some kind of fundamental, genetically encoded human itch.” – Taken from the introduction to Entertainment Weekly’s “100 Greatest Films of All Time” book, published in 1999 (the intro, I believe, was written by Ty Burr). Incidentally, a far more interesting and inclusive list than the “New Classics” one.
But Glenn, sounds similar to your intro to this post, no?
This is what we do. We make lists. Then we bitch about making lists, and about lists that other people make. Then we make more lists.
By and large, we as a movie culture – be it Joe Six-Pack or wizened movie buff – are often incapable of judging films on their own, and feel the need to compare them to other movies to make sense of them. I’m as guilty as anyone of this, and there are certainly exceptions. But it’s a tough habit to break.
That being said, Pulp Fiction at #1? 10 years ago I would’ve said sure, fine, whatever. But has anyone watched it recently? Doesn’t hold up that well. I thought we were at the point of pronouncing Jackie Brown Tarantino’s best movie. Moving on…
I don’t make lists. I’ve tried. First, as you say, they’re a bitch to put together. Second, I can’t possibly know if I’ve left something important off because I haven’t seen every film ever made. That’s the only way a list won’t be at least 100% bullshit. Third, whose to say I have good taste? Fourth, I’m not selling anything, so I don’t need them to generate income. Finally, I can find plenty to talk about regarding movies without needing the tired, insipid help of a list.
So there. I feel better now.
A ‘ballsy move’ putting Blue Velvet at 4? Maybe for the readership they’re aiming at but a ballsy move to me is putting nothing less than Inland Empire there!
The problem with lists is that I feel at least three times removed from them. Sure Citizen Kane deserves to be at the top of a list over The Godfather – and why do we have to pander to the no-nothing youth anyway! – or Cary Grant deserves his position more than George Clooney, say. But to be honest even Citizen Kane and Cary Grant are middle-of-the-road safe choices, just older safe choices – you aren’t going to see an upset for Jean Gabin or Louise Brooks any time soon, and even they are the most accessible of ‘old’ stars!
(I’ll buck the trend and vote Donatis Banionis as my greatest movie star!)
And even this argument is getting outdated as I get the impression that most young audiences wouldn’t watch The Godfather now they have Goodfellas and The Sopranos or maybe even Clooney now that hes gotten all serious on them!
Jackie Brown – wasn’t it pronounced QT’s best movie ten years ago and became established fact and therefore old news 9 years ago?(!)
(Sorry for the abruptness, you might all be able to tell that I’m in a grumpy mood today!)
By including only six foreign-language films, EW is telling its reader they are right to boycott subtitles, and we all knew those filthy foreigners have nothing to say to us anyway. Couldn’t a clearer head have suggested that international cinema deserves at least 10% and found four more, such as Three Colors, Amelie, Raise the Red Lantern, and Infernal Affairs? Meanwhile, the most obvious omission for me is Local Hero. At least Terms of Endearment, Amadeus, American Beauty, Crash, and similar Oscar winners aren’t there.
Oh dear god. That Anderson Cooper remark … a freaking CNN anchor said that? We’re doomed. Where are my smelling salts? No, forget it, where’s the pocket flask?
I miss Première too Glenn. The 20 year collection is safely stored in boxes in my flat. I miss the long-form film coverage more than anything.
Entertainment Weekly was less mainstream in its initial incarnation. For example, it gave “Pretty Woman” an “F.” Then, a few months in, the critic who came up with the concept of Entertainment Weekly, Jeff Jarvis, was fired, and EW became a handmaiden of Hollywood.
A month later, I’d like to chime in supporting that older Entertainment Weekly list. Some questionable standings to be sure and the upper reaches were fairly predictable, but any list that manages to slip in “Last of the Mohicans” and “Celine & Julie Go Boating” (2 great films which – for very different reasons – rarely make top 100 lists) within 4 or 5 spaces of each other is OK in my book. Speaking of the latter movie, I’ll have to check out Thomson’s Have You Seen… Like these neverending lists, Thomson and Rosenbaum are critics I’m thankful for the opportunity to roll my eyes over, (though their views are certainly more edifying than the AFI’s). Like the uncle you call crazy but take every opportunity to visit.
Indeed Citizen Kane is the best movie ever made.
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